cupu

Hello everyone,

After much fiddling I managed to install a new fork on my mountain bike (not much of a performance but being a mechanical noob it took me some time); my previous fork was a suspension fork which I replaced with a suspension corrected Surly Troll fork and the reason for the change was so that I can fit fenders and a front rack to my bike (no eyelets for either on the previous fork).
After the installation I noticed that my front wheel is not centered between the blades of the fork; that is to say the center of the tire does not line up with the "fender fork hole" (the hole that's drilled in the center of the fork, where the blades meet - is there a special name for this?).
I also have a picture, sorry for the very low quality (low end camera phone):



In the picture you can see ( I hope ) that the wheel is a little bit to the right of the center of the fork; could this be normal or have I stumbled on some incompatibility?

Also for the near future my fender mounting dreams (for the front wheel) are crushed since there's a huge distance between the wheel and the "fender fork hole"; is there an adapter I should buy or I am better of trying to fashion one out of some thin piece of metal?

Thank you very much for the help,
Stefan

hueyhoolihan

at a glance, i would venture to guess that either the wheel has a dish in it, which it shouldn't on a front wheel, or the fork is bent or dropouts are not square. if i had my druthers, i would choose the front wheel problem...

a good test is to turn the front wheel around and remount it. three significant things could happen.

1) it could fix it.

2) the misalignment could remain on the same side

3) the misalignment could now be on the other side.

this should tell you a lot.

cupu

Thanks for the tips hueyhoolihan I'll have a closer look this evening after work.
If it helps this morning I measured the distance (with the wheel mounted and the qr fully installed) between the dropouts and the hub flanges and the distance was equal on both sides; I then used the v-brake mounts as the next measuring point and there was about 1 cm difference on the left side (looking at the bike from the front).

From your reply I understand this isn't normal and I should get it fixed.

Thanks again!

saddlesores

you're measuring from the v-brake mounts? i'd bet you have disc brakes, though.
i'd also bet you found a lazy wheelbuilder. one who doesn't bother to use a dishing
tool...he just eyeballs it...."meh, close enough." Since the hub has disc mounts, you
won't be using v-brakes, so he thinks it doesn't need to line up perfectly.

***never mind then....i had a similar problem a few months ago. dude that made
the wheels (disc hub, but using v-brakes) didn't bother to use a dishing tool to
center the rim on the hub. wheel was about 1cm to one side, when reversed it
was then about 1cm to the opposite side.

was the wheel properly centered in your suspension fork?

cupu

@saddlesores
Thanks for the input; I'm sorry I didn't clarify, I don't have disk brakes; I use v-brakes but just haven't mounted them yet (though the fork can mount disk brakes too, could this be the issue?).
I was under the impression that no dishing is required for front wheels, still the wheels are not really that great (the bike is a decathlon rockrider 5.1 - so very low end - and the wheels are stock).

cobba

Take the front wheel off, flip it around 180 degrees so the left side of the wheel is on the right side of the fork and remount it. If the problem moves to the opposite side of the fork then the wheel is at fault. If the problem stays on the original side then the fork is at fault.

cupu

Thank you cobba, I'll try that this evening.
If it's the wheel, then i've been riding it as it is for one whole year (not a lot though, about 5 - 600 km), so unless the previous fork had such an offset (which I doubt) what is the danger of running with it as it is? I'd still ask the question if the fork was at fault, what would be the problem with running with it as it is?

--- LE:
saddlesores: just saw your edit now; I'll find out today if the dishing is at fault as for the wheel, the fork has normal dropouts (unlike my previous fork it has no lawyer lips - I was very surprised when it took some effort to push the wheel all the way up the droputs and the engage the qr) and I'm pretty sure the axle is pinned at the same level in both dropouts.

--- Even later edit:
saddlesores: only now did I realize you where asking about the original fork; as far as I remember, yes it was centered (I never really cared actually, it's only on this new fork with it's huge distance between crown and wheel that I bothered to check).

mrrabbit 

All dual-flange hub equipped bicycles wheel that we ride have the "appearance" of "dish".

Dish as an "appearance" is simply a rough description of a crude bowl shape that can be described on each side of a wheel - or in the case of rear wheel with extreme asymmetry - the entire wheel itself.

People are so used to talking about it in reference to an asymmetrical rear wheel that they forget what "dish" is a reference to and ignore the front wheel.

Keep in mind though that the "appearance" of "dish" is simply a descriptive - i.e., as an adjective.

In your case you need to check "dish" in terms of a verb - the act of "centering" the rim between the lock nuts of the hub. The definition of "dish" as a verb is the "dish" we talk about that is technically directly relevant to properly building a bicycle wheel.

99.99% of the bikes we ride are based upon symmetrical frame sets - hence our rims in our wheels must be properly "centered" between the lock nuts of the hub they are built on for our bicycles to function properly.

So all you have to do is grab a dishing tool and correct - or use the flip flop method with an axle turn each time to ensure lock nuts and hub shells defects aren't obscuring the "dish" check and correct if necessary.

=8-)

Al1943

I'm quessing that the fork dropouts are not square. If that is the case return the fork for a refund.

fietsbob

Long trip from the factory to the Taiwan docks , POE, to QBP and then to retailer
bent in transit or you are the 1st QC in the chain.

IF you know your wheel is true, return the fork, and have another
that they have the QC check done, before they ship it, this time.

QC= quality control inspection..

cycle_maven

If the wheel is still catty-whompus to the same side after reversing the wheel (and making sure that both axles are completely bottomed out in the dropouts), then the dropouts aren't quite parallel. The fork should be returned for refund or replacement. If returning the fork isn't an option, then you can file the slot of the left dropout with a round file until the wheel is centered. It shouldn't take more than a mm or so.

Al1943

In common bicycle terminology if the rim is centered between the locknuts it is properly "dished".
mrrabbit knows a lot about wheels.

onespeedbiker

cupu, sense you removed the wheel from another fork and it was centered, it is highly unlikely that your factory wheel has suddenly become uncentered. Further, while forks can surely be made off center, again it's something you don't see very often. The usual suspect here is the wheel is not bottomed out in the drop outs. You mentioned there was some issue here, which sounds like you had some trouble seating the QR. Also you mentioned the fork did not have lawyer tabs; but the Surly Troll does have lawyer tabs. Go back loosen the QR enough so it doesn't hang up on the tabs, make sure the bike is sitting upright and leave no doubt that the wheel is properly anchored in the dropouts.

mrrabbit 

I remember when I first got my Tommasini Sintesi back in 2001, my buddy had to take a fine round file to the left fork dropout to remove just a tad of excessive chrome. Once done, the properly dished wheel settled in perfectly centered below the fork crown. It was a scary moment for me at first...

=8-)

Grand Bois

I should have said between the flanges.

mrrabbit 

A dishing tool doesn't "see" the flanges, it "sees" lock nuts or end caps and the rim.

=8-)

cupu

Thanks a lot everyone for the replies and thank you especially mrrabbit for the helpful wheel dish explanation.
@cycle_maven
I think I don't know the theory behind mounting the front wheel; on my old fork there was but one way to put the axle in the fork, either it was in or it was not. On the surly troll fork I have quite some room to move (maybe 1 cm or more) the axle -vertically - in the dropouts. When I installed front wheel I pushed the hub axle as far UP as I could and then secured the quick release. English is not my first language but I'm pretty sure "bottoming out" is the exact opposite of what I did. Should I install the axle lower if possible? I tried setting it a little lower and the wheel offset seems to have been reduced (from 1 cm to about half a cm - the distance measured is between the v-brake mounts and the rim). Was I installing the wheel incorrectly? Do I really need to install the axle as low as can be beared? Why is this?

I've bought the fork form an online shop in Germany but I live a few countries away, so that's why I'm reluctant to send the fork back (it will take a lot of time for a new one to come back, if there's a problem that is). I think I can live with with 0.5 cm error if there's no danger in using it as it's now (it is my understanding that there's no problem, is that right?).

Best regards,
Stefan

cupu

I think the problem is fixed and it was my incorrect installation of the front wheel that was at fault. I've still pushed the axle as far up as I could in the dropouts but I guess I was more careful.

This is how it looks now:


I think it's a lot better but I've been looking at it too much and don't think I can tell anymore. Until a flat comes along, I don't think I'll fiddle with that wheel anymore.

On my previous fork I coulnd't install the wheel in the fork without turning the bike upside down, on the surly troll I can do it with the bike on the repair stand and I thinkg that's where I went wrong; future installs will all be with the bike upside down so my friend gravity can help.

Again, thank you all very much for the help.

onespeedbiker

What you did is excatly what I meant by bottoming out; in other words with the bike right side up install the front wheel by placing the axle in the dropouts and let the fork seat itself so the axles are flush up against the top of the dropouts. In other words, after you have placed the axles at the end of the fork drop outs, let the fork drop down on the axle until it stops or bottoms out.

JanMM

Yes.
Gravity helps more with the bike right side up than with it upside down.