alan s 

Looking to make my 11-speed road bike drivetrain more climbing friendly. For rolling hills, when fully loaded, I am in the lowest gear more than I would like, and the plan is to do some trips that involve more serious climbing this summer. What are the options for lower gearing?

The current setup is Ultegra 50-34 front, 11-32 rear, which gives around 29 gear inches. It looks like JTek Shiftmate 8 allows the use of 11 speed road shifters with 11 speed MTB rear derailleur and cassette. Shiftmate Compatibility | Jtek Engineering. This would give me 23 gear inches with an 11-40 cassette or 22 gear inches with an 11-42 cassette, either of which would be better. The conversion would run around $200.

Are there other options, such as swapping out the inner chainring or a new crank, that would be better or cheaper, and allow even lower gearing?

treebound 

A lot of people go with a triple on front. If you swap the small chainring for something smaller but stay with a double you might have to make additional adjustments or reduce your large chainring to keep everything shifting happy. I'm not current on the 11 speed stuff so hopefully someone else will chime in here.

alan s 

Didn't mention I have hydraulic road disc brakes, so going with a triple up front is not an option, AFAIK. Also, road triples are not highly regarded.

fietsbob

Building a bike with smaller wheels lowers the gears..

Or just HTFU put it in the big ring like Museeuw, and drop the rest of the peloton. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnX4uaDYyIU

alan s 

Smaller wheels? Not really an option. HTFU? There's a lot to be said for that, but it makes me nervous hitting the lowest gear with no bailout option other than walking. I greatly prefer spinning over grinding. Hit some pretty steep hills last summer, but they were short. I'm more concerned about 2-3 mile climbs with significant grades.

fietsbob

I think you went down the wrong path in racing components and then wanted to tour on it..

stop Pre Worrying just go someplace .. I see bikes that have crossed the whole continent with the same 50-34 crank on it ..

(Topographic Maps show you how steep the hills are by how close the isobars are to each Other )



Its not like DC's Capital Hill is Mountainous , except the piles of our money spent there.

I have used my 2 foot Gear , on fact I have to use it when I visit friends that live on the ridge-top in this town.

alan s 

For riding in the swamp that became DC (which it still is in many respects), climbing is not much of a concern. However, I'm planning on tackling some real climbs this summer, so I'm "preparing," not "worrying." There's always the option of taking another bike with a mountain triple and low enough gears I could ride up anything (16 gi), but also considering some mods to the road bike to provide that extra lower gear or two.

Gadgets4grls

[QUOTE=alan s;18592793]Looking to make my 11-speed road bike drivetrain more climbing friendly. For rolling hills, when fully loaded, I am in the lowest gear more than I would like, and the plan is to do some trips that involve more serious climbing this summer. What are the options for lower gearing?

Hi Alan,

I'm doing something similar on my rig so just to give you some options.

Instead of going with a shiftmate and mountain I went with a "GoatLink" and kept my Shimano 6800 Di2 long cage road derailleur and a 40-11 speed XT M8000 mountain cassette.

I'm running a 135mm 11 speed "road" compatible freehub and a mountain cassette with a spacer on the inside. Its kind of confusing because you'd think they would be universal but they're not. Example my old 135 cyclocross 10 speed rear hub wouldn't fit a road 11 speed cassette but the 11 speed mountain cassette fit just fine. Just something to confirm before buying new parts.

As I was saying so I'm still running the 50/34 in the front. I had to add chain links otherwise risked damaging the derailleur if I accidentally shifted into large/large. So my system runs fine just be aware that cross chaining is a no no if you follow suite. The last two cogs on each end of the cassette are dedicated to the corresponding chain rings. Two largest rear must be ran on the 34 and two smallest rear on the 50.
On 700c wheels with 32mm tires that gave me a gear inch range of 23-123.

This would in my opinion would be the easiest and cheapest conversion, goatlink about $40 and cassette about $80, the only thing is you need to be aware of what gears you're in and not cross chain. If you add enough links you wont damage anything immediately by going large/large but it's a balancing act. The more links you add the less 34/ rear derailleur cog range that you'll have. The reason is because you've exceeded the rear derailleurs take up limit. The advantage is you don't lose your top end gearing this way but you limit how low you can get.

The other option if want or need to spend the money is a Schlumpf Cargo/Mountain drive. I went that route on top of what I previously did and now have a gear range of 9.5-123 gear inches. My reasoning was because I'm riding a really heavy touring bike and have bad knees.

The reason I went this route rather than a mountain bike front derailleur was two fold. One since I'm running Shimano Di2 I can mix groupsets and would have to run two systems, not a problem since you're going mechanical. Second at least for me was that if I did go with the mountain bike front crank and derailleur I would end up with an upper limit of about 90 gear inches. This was the solution that I came up with to gain the low gearing but not lose my higher end.

Just be aware that this is an expensive conversion so you have to decide for yourself if it's worth it.

Hope you find this helpful

Gadgets

alan s 

Never heard of a GoatLink before. Reading online, looks like it's primarily designed to improve shifting and wear performance with 1 x 11 systems. Sounds like you are using OK it with a double up front, being careful not to cross-chain, if I read your post correctly?

However, my understanding of the need for a Shiftmate is the different cable pull ratios between road and mountain shifters. Perhaps you don't have that issue using Di2? Don't know much about Di2, so could you explain further?

I found this article that explain pull ratios. Low Gear Range: Road Shifters & Gears For Easier Hill Climbing | CyclingAbout

fietsbob

Like I said , people had crossed the Rocky Mountains in Colorado with no lower than a 1:1 Low gear (34:34)

and they got Here , then Left their bike and bussed and Flew Home

and I put it in a Carton and shipped it back East, Via UPS, It's a thing My LBS Does..

So I saw what drive train they had used. and been successful in reaching the Pacific Coast.



Had colleagues in other shops that used to live in CO, they said (quite logical, if you think about it)

they made the grades less steep to remain passible in the snows of winter , you know, to drive to Ski Resorts,

than some of the roads, like in Southern England that remained pretty much just a surface improvement
of the ones the Roman Empire Made.



BTW now You dont 'add links' if you went in for 10 & 11 speed stuff.

You buy a New chain then just don't remove the same number of links as you did Before

so the new chain has more links remaining.

alan s 

Looks like the Sugino OX901D Compact Plus+ crank allows a 30 inner chainring, but they are fairly expensive. That would get the drivetrain down to 25 gear inches using the 32 cog. Not a huge improvement. Could get as low as 19 gear inches with a 42 cog, but an entire drivetrain replacement (other than FD) would run $600. Ouch!

IK_biker

Any triple can be used as a double - with granny ring, and a 46t or 44t installed as a middle ring (Stronglight and others make those chainring sizes to be used as "inners" - in the mid-position).
This keeps the rear "as is".
I have run a 46-30, and am getting ready to apply the same solution again on another bike. Any 130/74 BCD triple is suitable, no need to fork out a fortune for the Sugino OX901D.
Or buy the 46/30 IRD double direct.

You can go to 46-28 or 44-26 if you like "living on the edge" with the current shifters - or you could deploy a friction shifter for the front with even a smaller granny ring.

GeoKrpan

True, road triples are not highly regarded, but it is for reasons other than how well they work, they work well.

A triple would be the best solution. An MTB triple would give you the lowest gears and you could have nice, tight spacing in the rear.

bikemig 

You could go with a "wide" compact crank, 46-30 up front. Sugino makes one and it is expensive as you pointed out. If you buy it direct from Japan, you'll save some coin.

There are some square taper ones that would do the job from IRD and velo orange (both 46-30). They probably look too retro though for your set up.

The shiftmate 8, if it works, looks to be your best bet. Micro shift makes 10 speed MTB compatible bar end shifters.

Frankly, I don't think a compact crank is your best bet for touring and it might be worth your while to bite the bullet and get the sugino double to get the gearing you need.

fietsbob

US made White industries VBC ROAD CRANKS ? White Industries

inners 24 - 38 Outers 38 to 53.


so it will built pairs like you used to do with TA cyclotourist cranks.

one of my co tourists on the Cal Coast had a 28 50 pair on the bike he brought from England with him.

essentially a single chain ring with a bail out low .

BITD the high cog was 13t, now that its 11 .... the big ring can be a 44t , 4:1 should be enough.

Tourist in MSN

I have been using a road triple for years for touring, I swapped out the 30 tooth granny gear for a 24 tooth. When people tell me to get a mountain crank, I just tell them that I like the one I have. Don't let others opinions drive your decision.

But, if you wanted to switch to a triple, would your shifter work? You might would need a different front derailleur too, I am using a vintage Suntour derailleur with a friction front shifter on the bike in the photo.

Having a chain catcher would be a good idea if you put on a triple.

I do not know if there are any 11 speed triples or if you could use a 10 speed triple on a 11 speed chain, you would have to find that out yourself.



I have posted this photo dozens of times on this forum.

alan s 

Pretty sure I'm locked into the current crank and front derailleur with 11 speed, unless I wanted to go with a 1x11 setup and ditch the FD. Looking at the rear, the RoadLink would allow an 11-36 cassette with the existing derailleur. 1X Gravel and All-Road Setup ? wolftoothcomponents.com The other option, which is what I am leaning toward, is 11-40 cassette, long cage MTB RD, and Shiftmate. A bit more expensive, but two lower gears vs. one.

djb

just so we are clear here, you will not be adding bags to your road bike will you? Not that it really matters but I just wanted to be sure.
From my riding experience, getting down from 29g.i. to 23 g.i. would be a noticeable and appreciated difference, and so your $200 option seems like the best way to go and you will see immediately how you like it.
When I ride my dropbar bike without anything on it, it still weighs a good 28lbs and I still appreciate having the stock gearing down around 25. I imagine your bike weighs less but then I am a light guy and like climbing, so your 23 or 22g.i option seems perfectly reasonable to me and fits along with my experience of what is nice to have for steep stuff.

as I'm sure you know, the only downside to the wide cassettes 11-40 or whatever is that you are going to lose some closer spacings between shifts. Look at the specific cogs you have now and compare them in gearing charts to the 11-40 and you'll see the larger jumps--but this is the price for a more comfortable and flexible gearing range that you will appreciate at times.

I would also add that its not really a problem with longer caged derailleurs to switch out at times the 11-40 back to a tighter cassette. I do it sometimes with my 9 speed stuff and there is usually no more than a very small rd adjustment to do, a small barrel adjuster turn and its done--so keep this in mind if you really do like a tighter cassette and can use it at times. Takes 10 or 15 mins to take off the cassette and check the shifting up on a stand.

mstateglfr 

Dont follow. They arent highly regarded for touring?...if thats the case, neither is a compact double. They arent highly regarded in terms of quality?...if thats the case, I havent noticed anything that makes them worse quality than their sibling doubles. They arent highly regarded by road going folk because they are snobby about equipment?...eh shouldnt be important.


Or are they not highly regarded for a reason not listed?




A road triple running as a double could get the 2 chainrings down a good bit to make spinning easier.

djb

Triple used as a double will probably have chainline issues with bb no?

In any case, the expense to go to a triple wouldn't be practical, crank, shifters, bb concerns perhaps, a lot more money and issues.

You are going to have to see if your proposed 200 switch really is feasible or should I say, really work well as you think. If so it seems like the best route.

Gadgets4grls

Hi Alan,

What the "Goat Link" does is drop the derailleur down lower so that it can clear the larger rear cogs. You can use the "Goat Link" up to 40T with dual chain rings but not the 42T "Goat Link" at least according to the mfg.

I'm running a Shimano Ultegra Di2 6800 GS "road" derailleur which has a mfg spec of 32T largest cog. If you max or reverse the "B" screw you can get it to clear a 36T. What the "Goat link" does is drop the dreailleur down approximate 15mm lower so that it can clear the 40T that I'm running now.
In your case the "Goat Link" would do the same thing. Assuming that your road derailleur has a max cog of 32T it will allow you to run a 40T. With your existing shifters and derailleurs.

You're right what the "Shift Mate" does is change the pull ratio on your shifters so you can run a mountain bike derailleur with a road bike indexed shifter.

I'm putting this part in for people that don't understand not sure if you do or not but here it is.
This gets confusing so hopefully I can be clear on this part if not let me know and I'll try again.

The cog spacing for 11 speed cassettes is the same for both road and mountain bike cassettes. I'm talk Shimano can't comment on other brands.
So what this means is that the derailleur has to move the same amount to shift between cogs. The reason for products like the "Shift Mate" isn't because the cogs are spaced different but because the shifters used on mountain bike derailleur and road derailleur have different pull ratios because of the lever travel distance. Think brifter on road bikes and thumb trigger on mountain. Your road bike brifter has approximate 4 inches of lever travel, I didn't measure it so I'm going of memory. The thumb lever on a trigger shifter has approximate 2. So this means that the trigger has to pull more cable in it's two inches than a road does in it's 4. So if you just hooked a road brifter to a mountain bike derailleur you'd end up changing two gears instead of one. (I'm just trying to give an example here so it might not work exactly like this put hopefully it conveys the problem.) The "shift mate" corrects for this indifference.

So onto the next step
So your option are either mountain derailleur/shift mate, or Goat Link and each has it advantages.

The advantage of a mountain derailleur is that the derailleur will have higher ground clears in relation to max cog size. The other advantage on the higher end derailleurs they have clutches which help stop chain bounce. Which is a real issue on mountain bikes but not so much on touring since you're not as likely to be doing jumps on a fully load touring bike.
The advantage of a Goat Link is you can use your existing derailleur and shifters. You just get to use a larger cog. The disadvantage is you don't get a clutches derailleur. On the other hand if you want or need to you can revert back to normal road gearing by removing the Goat Link and putting on a standard cassette.

So I'm running a full "Road" group Ultegra Di2 system on my bike, because I'm running the electronic shifting I can't just swap out the rear derailleur to a mountain. The electronic system shuts off if you mix road/mountain derailleurs. I could run a second battery and junctions to run two separate system one for front and one for rear. I chose to go the cheaper route of the Goat Link.

Hope this makes sense
Gadgets

Gadgets4grls

Hi fietsbob,

I don't know if you were commenting on me or not. If not just ignore this.

I have a full 11 speed Ultegra system. My comment about adding links is because of the chain wrap that my bike now has. The stock Ultegra 6800 chain has 116, going off memory here could be wrong. The problem is when I went to a 40T rear cog my chain wrap went from 82 (32/50) total teeth to 90 (40/50) total teeth. What this meant in my case if I'd accidentally shift to large/large I would rip the derailleur apart. Rather than risking that I "added" links to the chain and am running a 119/120 link chain, never counted so not positive. If I shift into large/large that cage on the derailleur is pull all the way forward but it wont ripe it apart.
Now the only time I ever shift into this combination is to perform the front derailleur trim as required by the Di2 system. I never ride this combination as I'm pretty sure that it would damage the derailleur in a hurry since it's pull all the way forward.

I ride 34 front in 40 thru 17/15 and 50 front in 31-11. 34/15 is kind of pushing and I do have some chain sag so don't normally ride that combination but could if I had to. What this does is keep my total tooth count in the 51-81 tooth count range which is still in the stock tooth count range for an Ultegra GS derailleur. Stock tooth count range is 46-82 the reason for 51 is because of the links that I've added to the chain.

For those interested my shifting pattern pretty much goes like this 34-40,35,31,27,24,21 than to 50-31,27,21,19,17,15,13,11 (this is without the Schlumpf.)

Hope this clear up any confusion.

Gadgets

fietsbob

alan s started this thread , so no not you. you were confused thinking so. but whatever


i got off the gadgeteering seller's driven thing at 7 speed freewheels and a triple crank

and jumped to a Rohloff hub bike, in 08. *


I put a Schlumpf MD on my Brompton M3L.. they have a version for them.

* https://www.cyclofiend.com/working/20...clark1008.html

alan s 

Appreciate all the great responses. This is very helpful. The GoatLink 11, per their website, is compatible with "M8000 (XT) and M9000 (XTR) series eleven-speed Shimano rear derailleurs" and "double chainrings are not currently supported." So it looks like it would not work with my current drivetrain (I think). OTOH, it looks like the RoadLink will only allow up to 11-36, not 11-40 per their website. RoadLink ? Lindarets

Also, my current RD has a maximum capacity of 37T, whereas running the compact crank 50-34 and 11-40 cassette requires a RD with 45T capacity. The long cage version of the M8000 XT RD has a capacity of 47T, so coupling the XT long cage RD with and 11-40 cassette and Shiftmate should work, at least on paper.

alan s 

I will be touring fully loaded. I did a trip last summer, and the bike as currently set up was fine, but this summer I'll be touring in mountainous terrain. Here is a picture of what I expect to be carrying, or possibly with rear panniers instead of the saddle bag.