spinconn

It is my understanding that that the pros in the 1960's, 70's and 80's were riding with 5, 6, 7 and 8 speed cassettes. I am curious about the spacing on those cassettes, the range of gears and the gear ratios they were riding. Have not come up with any answers from Dr. Google and thought I would ask here. I did find gear ratios given in a few cases but that only told me about one cassette sprocket size, not the range or spacing.

I assume they must have not bothered with the really low gears we have now and just powered their way up mountains, but still, those mountains were just as high and steep then as now.

Eric F 

If you look at pics from those eras, you can see what the trends were. Cassettes/freewheels were generally very tight, topping out with a 21T or 23T cog, in most cases. Another factor is that the standard crank arm bolt circle for racing cranks was 144mm, limiting the size of the small chain ring to 42T. In it's era, a 6-speed 13-21 x 52/42 would be pretty common.

1977 Tour de France...

alcjphil

Back in those years, until the later 80's they were riding with freewheels, not cassettes. For lower gearing, they may well have used triple cranks
Until quite recently, many rear derailleurs on race bikes would have had trouble with a large cog bigger than 28 teeth

msu2001la

Race gearing in those eras was ridiculously tall and riders did a lot of low cadence mashing up those climbs.

In the 60's and 70's guys like Eddie Merckx rode 53/44 with a 6 speed 13-19 for flat stages, and a 13-21 for mountain stages. In the 1980's something like a 53/42 with a 7 speed 12-21 was more typical, and maybe a 12-25 for mountain stages.

I don't think 11t cogs became a thing until Shimano went to 9 speed? That would've been around 1991. Riders started spinning much higher cadences around then as well, realizing the benefits over mashing big gears.
Pretty sure 1990's and 2000's pro riders were on 11-25s - maybe 11-28 for the climbs. Honestly it's probably not much different today - are any pro riders on something like an 11-32?

Eric F 

My recollection that 11T came with 9s Shimano is the same as yours (but I could be wrong). Sometime before that, Shimano (maybe others) went to a 130mm bolt circle, allowing for a smaller 39T chainring. My first road racing bike (1996) was 8s Ultegra...12-23 x 53/39. Shimano 9-speed Dura Ace was introduced in 1996.

PeteHski

Certainly 11-32 for big mountain stages. Even 11-34 too. But the pros usually have bigger chainrings up front, typically 53/39 instead of a compact 50/34 you might find on a consumer build.

genejockey 

When the Uniglide freehub was introduced around 1981, Dura Ace freehubs allowed the use of an 11t cog, by making the outer end of the freehub, where the smallest cog threaded on, a smaller diameter than other groups. So, 11t cogs were available as early as that. I'm not sure how popular they were.

I think this continued as long as Uniglide did until Hyperglide was introduced, with its lockring replacing the threaded smallest cog.

genejockey 

My Ritchey (bought in 1997) came with 8s Dura Ace, 53/39 x 12-23. I replaced the cassette with a 12-25.

grolby

Riders didn’t suddenly realize the benefits of spinning smaller gears in the 1990’s; before then, the technology to combine low climbing gears with close ratios simply didn’t exist, and racers opted for close ratios. Of course, Campagnolo Nuovo/Super Record also just couldn’t manage a bigger cog than a 22 or maybe a 24 in extreme cases. The lack of range extended to the high end as well, a 12 tooth cog was a novel concept in the late 1970’s and racers well knew the benefits of spinning a high cadence because it was the only option for going fast. There’s actually a funny tidbit in The Rider (1978) where one character gets made fun of for going out of his way to buy a 12 tooth cog, his friends calling him “Le Douze.”

Even in the 90’s, riders were still climbing on what we would consider flatland cassettes today. Andy Hampsten won on Alpe d’Huez in 1992 with something like a 39x23 low gear. It makes me wonder what was on Tom Pidcock’s bike last year, but I would guess nothing higher than a 39x28, maybe lower than that.

MoAlpha

Pros, hell! I remember dragging my puny collegiate and Cat IV ass around the hills of Eastern PA, Upstate NY, and New England with 52-39 and a 13-21 5 speed freewheel, maybe a 13-25 for the steep stuff. I have no idea how we did it.

The rest of those bikes pretty much sucked too, if you ask me, but I know that’s an unpopular opinion around here.

Trakhak

This is Road Cycling (aka Abuse). You may be thinking of Classic & Vintage (aka the Argument Clinic).

big john

I had 4 bikes with Shimano 7 speed cassettes and 52/42 cranks. I was 220# in those days and climbed everything around with them after switching the big cog to a 28. Friends all used higher gearing than I did. I switched to a 39 on the front about the time I turned 40 and moved into the mountains.

I don't remember what the small cog was, maybe a 12 or 13.

I had a touring bike with a triple which I used to do a 23% climb back then. I know some pros have used triples on occasion.

rm -rf

See the link below for a fun video on the very steep Muro di Sormano climb. It has some quotes from 1960 era racers. I found it again from a google search of bikeforums.net.

I posted this in an interesting 2017 thread "what gearing did racers use in the 5 / 6 speed era?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More quotes, via OCR:

"| cannot say why they wanted to choose a climb of this kind.
| understand that the Ghisallo does not guarantee a selection,
but frankly, this is too far in the opposite direction.

The climb is simply beastly, impossible to ride."
Ercole Baldini

~~~

1700 meters long
280 meters gain
17% average gradient
25% maximum gradient

~~~
(that's 1.05 miles, 919 feet. Wow!)

seypat

Here you go. Look hard enough and you'll see some of them using barcons.

https://www.nfb.ca/film/60_cycles_en/

PeteHski

I had a very quick Google and there are reports of Pidcock using a 39F 34R low ratio. What I would say is that even modern compact doubles are a bit marginal for average riders on epic climbs. I rode the L'Etape last year (Queen's stage of the TDF) with a 35F 33R low ratio and was grinding away uncomfortably up Alpe d'Huez. I'm an average keen rider with a sub 4 W/kg FTP. I really could have done with a significantly lower ratio to bring my cadence into a half sensible range, especially on that final climb.

datlas 

Not to be contrary, but I am pretty sure the pros did not use triples. Not that I ever saw, and I followed this closely.

I am open to being proved wrong, of course.

MoAlpha

Agree. I'm sure it occurred, but I don't recall ever having seen a triple in a competitive context.

msu2001la

Exactly.
No self respecting pro since the invention of the triple crank would've ever been caught dead racing one.

Wildwood 

Somewhere I remember Eddy Merckx' description of the best way to climb the long ascents without blowing - climbing out of the saddle became like each leg falling into the next downward pedal stroke.

Out of saddle climbing is a dying skill. Generally remedied by modern gearing, but not always for everyone.

It's the reason for Horses for Courses.

Not a mountain goat as presently geared - lest not for me.

Trakhak

Triples have been used in pro races, albeit infrequently, over the years. Giovanni Battaglin won the 1981 Vuelta after he used a triple on a crucial climbing stage. (There are a number of more recent examples, but this is the first that came up in a quick search.)

From this Cycling Weekly article:

"At this point in Battaglin’s 1981 Grand Tour campaign, with the likes of Silvano Contini, Giuseppe Saronni and Tommy Prim snapping at his aching heels, his legs might have decided enough was enough.

After all, the Vuelta didn’t have a single rest day. But Pinarello had a secret weapon waiting for him: a climbing bike designed especially for the Tre Cime stage equipped with a custom triple chainset that would enable him to spin up the ramp-like final climb, while his overgeared rivals burnt all their matches as they laboured up in pursuit."

t2p

more than half of the field dropped out of the first thrift drug classic in Pittsburgh - 1991 - many (if not most) dropped because they were not geared properly

the teams were better prepared for the later races - at one race the Motorola team was using cassettes with 28t cogs

a few guys in our road bike group in the early 90’s ran off road cranks (without small ring) and off road cassettes

one guy in our group ran a compact off road crank paired with a cassette with an Action Tec 11t cog to give greater top end ... 11t cogs then began to appear a few years later from the major manufacturers

don’t recall any in our group with a triple (including the seniors)

big john

bikemig 

The climbing gears on old bikes were tough. I have a 1960 Olmo Gran Sport that is almost completely original. The clincher wheels date from the late 60s (I still have the original tubular wheels with Record hubs). The cinelli bar and stem, saddle, and the consumables obviously are not original.

The bike came stock with half step gearing: 49/46 chainrings and a 14-26 6 speed freewheel. I assume that is the gearing the bike came with as the freewheel on the original wheels was a 14-26 which would make sense given the small jump in the chainrings. That gives you 10 usable gears from a high of 92 inches to a low of 46 inches but you have to do a lot of double shifts to use those gears properly.

If you run cross over gearing with 52/42 chainrings and a 14-23 5 speed you get around the same gearing with a much easier shifting pattern. But the campy gran sport front derailleur on this Olmo (which was state of the art in 1960) couldn't handle that big a jump. Plus half step gearing gives you more usable gears than a cross over which typically has duplicates.

A while ago, I found a webpage showing the gearing used in Paris Brest Paris in the 50s and 60s. We're not talking about pros when it comes to PBP obviously but 1200 km in 90 hours or less is a serious ride and the riders did manage to eke out better gearing than the pros rode in those days. PBP is a very different ride than a road race but the technology was there to push the envelope in terms of gearing.

merlinextraligh

When men were men and sheep were nervous.

MoAlpha

I still have the nicest of my old ****ters too. It’s since been updated and relegated to the trainer.