cyclezen

so, revisiting electric shifting again
there have now been numerous instances where electric shifting has caused rider problems in the TDF
most recently, Van Garderen had his gearing screwed, while on his recent breakaway, which cost him a minute of his lead, and maybe cost him the stage win.
On today's Stage - P. Gilbert had his gearing get all wrapped up on a very smooth descent.

In both cases, neither could get the chain unwrapped and reset without a bike change.

How many of these gearing issues are really rider problems VS some flaw in the actual shifting mechs?

If I was a pro and my paycheck depended on this stuff, I'd be on cable/mechanical.

comments?

HigherGround

If I recall correctly, Cadel Evans had a mechanical problem during a snowy climb at this year's Giro which caused him to slip from second to third on GC and the final podium. There was speculation that it was the shifting, although I don't recall any definitive confirmation of that. Of course if BMC is smart they won't throw a sponsor under the bus. It's odd that Van Garderen, Gilbert, and Evans all seem to have had problems with the system, but I don't recall other teams having so many problems.

hamster

In case of Van Garderen, the report is that he was shifting on a bumpy road, the chain went over the largest cog in the cassette and got stuck between the cassette and the seatstay. I'm not sure if electronic vs mechanical shifting even enters into it. Seems like a combination of bad road surface, low limit adjustment screw in the RD set too low, and bad luck.

IthaDan 

Smart money's on an opening for a new head mechanic next season at BMC.

macca33

Happening too often to be a case of simple bad luck - if none of the other teams are having similar issues, then error/s in installation / adjustment have to be examined....

coachboyd

Electric shifting is very reliable, but when a problem happens in the Tour it's happening in front of a world wide audience. How many times have you seen other systems have problems? Remember when Schlecks chain was having problems when Contador was attacking and he couldn't respond. No system is going to be 100% perfect, but the electric is more reliable in my own personal experience.

The one bad thing about the electric is that it's so precise that if you do drop a chain it's harder to shift and get it to come back on, whereas with mechanical you can usually get it to go back onto the chainring.

merlinextraligh

That's interesting.

With Gilbert, it looked like the chain just went over the big ring and he should have been able to fix it easily, on the fly.

JoelS

BMC has had too many problems for it to be a coincidence. I don't know whether it's the system or the mechanic(s). Either way, if I were on that team, I'd want a cabled setup instead.

Nerull

If half the peloton is using Di2 and one particular team is having most of the problems, that doesn't really point to the system.

Schleck dropped a chain on red, switched to Di2, and dropped chains on that. There have been a few EPS chain drops this tour, but we all know Campy is perfection incarnate.

TakingMyTime

I could never see myself going to an electronic shift setup. I ride to eliminate the need for electricity.

ttakata73

If it is the system, it is better to have the pros be the guinea pigs than your average hard working consumer.
Let them figure out the problems for us.

When the price comes down; I'll give it a try.
Won't know if its good until I try it.

coasting 

Why isn't the whole peleton using Di2? It isn't new anymore.

Nerull

If they're using Shimano, most are. But SRAM and Campy make up a pretty good portion.

JakiChan

What happened to TJ happened to me on mechanical Ultegra.

hamster

Happened to me on mechanical Ultegra once too.

jmX

Oddly enough I swapped to 9070Di2 recently and had the exact same FD over shift a few hundred miles later. I adjusted the FD per shimano's dealer instructions, so maybe BMC did the same? Remember that on Di2 the FD over shifts then moves back by design, so you have to take that into account when adjusting the limit screws.

As for my bike, I dialed back the limit screw a bit from what shimano's recommends and have my fingers crossed. So far so good.

RJM

I threw my chain yesterday using bar end friction shifters. Stuff happens, it's bad when it happens in a race but it still happens. Mine happened because of road quality, bouncing chain, too aggressive on the shifter and the moon/tide was just right.

It seems to me that electronic would be a little more precise than mechanical shifting, in turn overshifts and dropped chains would be lessened.

c0lnago

Works great for cyclocross in the cold/mud/slop/wet. Wouldn't change it for anything. For the road...meh.

gc3

5000 miles on Di2 7970....Zero missed shifts or any other issues...and I've even managed to keep the battery charged...

Bacciagalupe

I concur that the problem isn't electronic shifting, it's either bad luck or a bad mechanic on BMC.

Plenty of pro riders have problems with mechanical components. That doesn't qualify as proof that those specific brands are awful, or that mechanical shifting is bad. Same for electronic.

Bah Humbug

I expected this thread to be a disaster, but there's a stunning level of reason here. I don't know why some people pretend any failure of Di2 is an indictment, as if cable tension never causes an issue. Like my swim coach's snapped FD cable on a ride this winter, or my Rival leaving me with a fistful of shift lever in the middle of a trainer session. Stuff happens; things break. If you can't handle it, wander over to FG/SS, but I suspect even they run into issues.

bt

shift happens!

cyclezen

I've tried DI2, and found it precise - just as CoachBoyd mentioned. However, I haven't ridden it hard or under duress of poor roads.
So I pay attention to when 'mechanical' things don;t go quite right for Pros.
Over many riding years I've had a number of misshifts and, except for a couple of times when I jammed the chain between the spider and arm, I've always been able to get the chain back on with a little easy pedaling and working the shifter. That option seems almost removed by electric shifting. It's just not possible to slowly work the shift to reset the chain. Most often it seems the rider needs to stop and fix the issue, and often enough seems to require a bike change.
And it's not just BMC...
I don;t have particulars for all the ones I've seen this season, but I do remember that Cancellara had problems during a TT, when he was riding smooth witheven power.
And the vast majority of issues with old systems was always focused on the FD; but now there seem to be significantly more real issues with rear shifting - something which rarely happened if you had the limit screws set properly and the shift range properly adjusted.

For the short amount of time I've had on DI2, I don;t see anywhere near the significant improvements over cable shift, like 10 spd brought over 9 spd.

A rider will chalk up the first time issue to 'rider error' or bad luck, but if it happens more often, then they might look at what really causes the issues.
... Just remembering that Tony Martin had bike problems which cost him at last yr's TDF Prologue TT.
I just think electric shifting can stand some scrutiny, which might make for a more reliable system.

garciawork

I honestly think the main benefit of electronic comes from the front anyways, I could easily see myself on a franken-bike with an electronic left shifter/hydro disc brakes, disc compatible fork, and mechanical everything else (caliper rear brake). Rear shifting on Campy is actually fun IMO. No issues with the front, but boy would auto-trim be nice... and if there seems to be more issues in the RD with electronic, why risk it?

Banzai

Too many things in my life have to be plugged in. I'm starting to hate it. It's a constant demand, however small, on my consciousness.

The fact that my bike isn't one of those things is one of its most endearing qualities.