Originally Posted by AdelaaR

I know that ... but wouldn't language be silly if we named everything after it's predecessor and simply add "-less"?
Shall we name electric cars "petrolless"?
Shall we name tablet pc's "keyboardless"?
Those words sound utterly silly to me ... and I get the same reaction every time I hear the word "clipless".

Originally Posted by Lew.

I can't figure out why people ride flats at all, except guys who ride a BMX.

Originally Posted by coasting

once you've gone clipless, you'll never go back.

Well, I did and I can see why clipless is infinately better. Of all the upgrades since I began cycling, this was the one that made the biggest impact. Second was cycling shorts.

Originally Posted by joe_5700

This is really all that needs to be said. You do not need any data, power meters etc. I could not imagine owning a bike without clipless pedals...

Originally Posted by gregf83

No one uses the 'correct' technique or anything close to it. Even when pedaling circles, riders still get the majority of their power when the pedal is around 3 o'clock.

Clipless is not more efficient, but it is more comfortable and allows you to apply more power when sprinting. I also pull up when climbing a steep hill standing up.

Originally Posted by mihlbach

Thats becaue you are a one-dimensional cyclist

Originally Posted by joe_5700

Nah. More like 2 dimensional. I ride road AND cross.

Originally Posted by hamster

Do you know of any studies showing that a beginner mashing pedals in an up-down style is not less efficient than an experienced cyclist pedaling circles (or, more generally, using a cleat-influenced technique)?

Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe

One study indicates that "pedaling in circles" doesn't change mechanical effectiveness or gross efficiency, and that intentionally pulling up actually reduces gross efficiency.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17545890

Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe

I must confess, I'm one of the "zomg clipless overrated" types. And yes, I use clipless.

Long story short: Clipless feels good and it keeps you connected to the pedal. A handful of monsters (like pro sprinters) would likely find it much harder to pedal at high cadences, with massive power, if their foot was not attached to the pedal. And if you're going to attach your foot to the pedal, clipless is much better than the old-school clips.

However, you aren't actually applying power to the drivetrain, and clipless won't fix poor pedaling technique. No one, even pro track cyclists, don't apply power to the drivetrain on the upstroke. All you're doing is lifting your leg (which is about 10% of your body weight, btw), without losing contact. And yes, this has been proven using pedal-based power meters.

The reason why people are so fanatically *cough* attached to the idea of clamping their foot to the pedal is because, on the basis of no real evidence, people assumed about 100 years ago that "of course you pull up and double your power." Once in circulation, these kinds of errors are notoriously difficult to eliminate. Thus, people who want to be Serious About Cycling hear from their buddy "clipless is more efficient, you can climb better" and all that other nonsense, believe it, and buy a pair.

Fortunately, clipless still feels good and is IMO mostly harmless. If your buddy doesn't like them, he doesn't need them. If you like them, feel free to use them.

Originally Posted by joe_5700

I think a lot of the efficiency comes from the footwear itself. There is much more energy lost when mashing your Nike's on platforms compared to a nice carbon sole road shoe...

Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe

Yeah, I can't think of a single mechanical reason why a stiffer sole would improve performance. Sounds more like the typical "zomg roadie thing faster don't bother me with the facts" deal.

My guess is that the real beneficiary of a stiff sole is your foot, not the drivetrain.

Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe

Yeah, I can't think of a single mechanical reason why a stiffer sole would improve performance. Sounds more like the typical "zomg roadie thing faster don't bother me with the facts" deal.

My guess is that the real beneficiary of a stiff sole is your foot, not the drivetrain.

Originally Posted by mihlbach

BMX racers use clipless.
Naturally freestylers don't because they take their feet off for tricks.

Originally Posted by caloso

If your feet are comfortable, then you will be able to turn the pedals faster and harder for longer. That's improved performance.

Originally Posted by grolby

Yes, but that's different from the common claim that power is lost to flex in the sole of the shoe. Which is almost certainly untrue - it takes so little power to flex a rubber shoe sole, and pretty much all the power is ending up on the pedal anyway.

As for more comfort improving performance - who knows if it does? In obvious cases, it clearly does, but in other just as obvious cases it does not: it's more comfortable to roll down to the street to the store on my girlfriend's city bike than my race bike, but the increased comfort definitely doesn't bring any added speed! This argument about "comfort = speed" is made so much lately that it's worth examining. My main objection is the need to justify improvements in comfort by just believing that they improve speed. For one thing, it ain't necessarily so, and it's just as silly to think that they do as it is to think clipless pedals improve "efficiency." And for another thing, my main objection is, why isn't just being more comfortable a worthy enough improvement on its own? It may not be any faster to have a stiff sole on your shoe, even if it is more comfortable, but I think more comfortable is a good enough advantage on its own.

Originally Posted by save10

I swear this exact same thread already existed with a mountain biker friend claiming that clipless pedals....yada yada

Originally Posted by drjay9051

I ride clipless on the road, always have. I was speaking to a buddy who does mountain biking. He rides flats. I inquired as to why he does not get clipless pedals and cleats.

Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe

However, you aren't actually applying power to the drivetrain, and clipless won't fix poor pedaling technique. No one, even pro track cyclists, don't apply power to the drivetrain on the upstroke. All you're doing is lifting your leg (which is about 10% of your body weight, btw), without losing contact. And yes, this has been proven using pedal-based power meters.

Originally Posted by mihlbach

Offroad riding environments are far more variable than the road, and there are many situations where flats are more appropriate. As a rule of thumb, if the trail requires little technical skill, then go clipless. If the trail is so technical that successfully navigating obstacles, jumping, and bombing downhill are more of a concern than your average speed, flats are the way to go.

To put it another way, cycling involves a continuum of technical skill, from "just riding along" to extreme MTBing/BMXing. Flats are most appropriate at the at the two extremes. For all all the stuff in between, clipless is more appropriate. YMMV.