How to restore old bearing cones?
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How to restore old bearing cones?
dear all
i have treated a rusty campagnolo front hub by putting its parts in a phosphoric acid solution. The rust is gone, but the surface of the bearing cones has many tiny holes now and i think that will probably deteriorate over time when put under load, along with the ball bearings.
is it possible to fix them ?
this surface looks safe
this one however looks heavily damaged, i tried to polish it gently but it looks hopeless
this is the cone of the rear hub which has been in use and didn't rust.
i have treated a rusty campagnolo front hub by putting its parts in a phosphoric acid solution. The rust is gone, but the surface of the bearing cones has many tiny holes now and i think that will probably deteriorate over time when put under load, along with the ball bearings.
is it possible to fix them ?
this surface looks safe
this one however looks heavily damaged, i tried to polish it gently but it looks hopeless
this is the cone of the rear hub which has been in use and didn't rust.
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One reason one paid extra for those old Campy hubs was to get ultra smooth bearings. The pitted bearings could be precision ground but that might go all the way through the heat treat. Because the cones cannot now give you the smooth ride you want, I'd just go ahead and buy new cones. BTW, check the cups, too.
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Put them back in and live with it till you can get more.
Next time just knock the loose rust off as best you can. Clean with solvents and/or lubricants and a rag, steel wool at the most. No acids, caustics or sandpaper.
PS..... you see the shinier ring on the good cone? That is the only place the bearing touches the cone. So if the rest is rusty, but you got a shiny ring with no pits, it's still good. Just clean off the rust so your grease stays clean.
Next time just knock the loose rust off as best you can. Clean with solvents and/or lubricants and a rag, steel wool at the most. No acids, caustics or sandpaper.
PS..... you see the shinier ring on the good cone? That is the only place the bearing touches the cone. So if the rest is rusty, but you got a shiny ring with no pits, it's still good. Just clean off the rust so your grease stays clean.
Last edited by Iride01; 02-21-20 at 06:34 PM.
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I am not sure about the use of phosphoric acid as a rust remover, but it has done what would be correct for getting paint to adhere to the steel surface. I do not think the cones can be salvaged, so replacing them is necessary. I would suggest you find a willing partner to help facilitate the purchase of new parts to repair your hub, from a country that does internet transactions. Smiles, MH
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Good to see sharply-focused images on BF but sorry that they so clearly show damaged surfaces.
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As others have suggested, cones that have pits this extensive and deep are not repairable. To borrow some lines from Monty Python:
"Thisparrot cone is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT CONE!!"
Ideally you could find cones would match up with Campy quality and more importantly, the geometry (the angle the bearing contact has with the cup and cone matters). But you could try cones from any bike or bike wheel what uses standard 10mm axles. If you can find a donor bike or wheel this should avoid having to order stuff via the web. Good luck.
"This
Ideally you could find cones would match up with Campy quality and more importantly, the geometry (the angle the bearing contact has with the cup and cone matters). But you could try cones from any bike or bike wheel what uses standard 10mm axles. If you can find a donor bike or wheel this should avoid having to order stuff via the web. Good luck.
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Someone here once posted info about a new Russian made grease that fills pits and restores lost metal to bearings in-situ. Maybe try some of that.
#12
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Steels, unprotected by grease, oil or other means rust. I've never cut one of these up, but would guess they are carburized; therefore, they will pit faster than steel if unprotected.
Phosphoric acid is well known as a rust remover, typically it should be neutralized after treating. Suspect these cones were pitted prior to cleaning rust, as others have said they are worthless. For info, no grease will restore lost metal to steel.
I'd use the internet to score new cones (and probably cups). Good luck.
Phosphoric acid is well known as a rust remover, typically it should be neutralized after treating. Suspect these cones were pitted prior to cleaning rust, as others have said they are worthless. For info, no grease will restore lost metal to steel.
I'd use the internet to score new cones (and probably cups). Good luck.
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Those cones are the pits and should be tossed into a deep pit never to see the light of day or use again.
Cheers
Cheers
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rhenning : sold separately they are pretty expensive ( 15$ for one piece )
_ForceD_ : thanks for the suggestion, but i doubt i can send money
Iride01 : I will try that for sure, thanks for the positive vibes
Mad Honk : do you know of better alternatives to phosphoric acid ?
dedhed : thanks nice thread !
JanMM : smartphones' cameras have really nice lenses nowadays
WizardOfBoz : Thanks for the the Monty Python, burying them will be less painful
I will see if i can match other cones, these hubs are so nice ..
AnkleWork : I was thinking about heating them and melting some tin wire
Steelman54 : Indeed i left them unprotected for 8 years hoping to mount them later but.. from now on, how should i neutralize the acid ?
sweeks : when i finally decided to mount them they were so rusty that i left them in the acid for several days. Fatal error !
Miele Man : You think they would be dangerous to ride ?
I feel so silly thanks everyone for your involvement
_ForceD_ : thanks for the suggestion, but i doubt i can send money
Iride01 : I will try that for sure, thanks for the positive vibes
Mad Honk : do you know of better alternatives to phosphoric acid ?
dedhed : thanks nice thread !
JanMM : smartphones' cameras have really nice lenses nowadays
WizardOfBoz : Thanks for the the Monty Python, burying them will be less painful
I will see if i can match other cones, these hubs are so nice ..
AnkleWork : I was thinking about heating them and melting some tin wire
Steelman54 : Indeed i left them unprotected for 8 years hoping to mount them later but.. from now on, how should i neutralize the acid ?
sweeks : when i finally decided to mount them they were so rusty that i left them in the acid for several days. Fatal error !
Miele Man : You think they would be dangerous to ride ?
I feel so silly thanks everyone for your involvement
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holytrousers,
Here I use abrasive wheels to remove a small bit of the rusted or pitted surface. One or two thousandsths of an inch of removal is always enough too remove small pits and dents leaving a new surface for the bearings to ride on. I try to think about how the cones were made and it is probably the same process used by the manufacturers. HTH, MH
Here I use abrasive wheels to remove a small bit of the rusted or pitted surface. One or two thousandsths of an inch of removal is always enough too remove small pits and dents leaving a new surface for the bearings to ride on. I try to think about how the cones were made and it is probably the same process used by the manufacturers. HTH, MH
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This^^^^
Slight pitting might be restored by the method Mad Honk suggests. The pitting in the cones shown is severe: I don't think that one or two thousandths of an inch (2.5 to 5 hundredths of a mm) will do. Again, if buying via the interweb is dicey, look for a donor wheel and steal the cones from that.
Slight pitting might be restored by the method Mad Honk suggests. The pitting in the cones shown is severe: I don't think that one or two thousandths of an inch (2.5 to 5 hundredths of a mm) will do. Again, if buying via the interweb is dicey, look for a donor wheel and steal the cones from that.
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EWWW!!!!
Ok, I have a hand polishing setup that I have successfully polished new, but rough cones of various brands, as well as cones with minor pits, off-brands.
I did try cutting deep pits from a Campagnolo Record/Nuovo Record bottom bracket. Man that was HARD to cut on a lathe, and I was only moderately effective while also making it narrower.
Anyway, for my hand polishing of cones, I went to the bike coop, and picked up some broken axles which I use as axle stubs.
I screw a locknut, then a backward cone on the end of the axle. And, chuck it up in a mini drill press.
I first hit it with 220 grit, then 320 or 400 grit, then 600 grit, and then wet 600 grit. Sometimes I'll wrap my sandpaper on an old round chainsaw file (the file itself didn't seem that effective).
I've successsfully polished away new surface imperfections, as well as minor pitting.
The last "rear" cone you have pictured, in a few minutes I could have a mirror finish on that similar to Record/Nuovo Record cones.
As far as the others, the first cone with moderate pitting, I might try the drill polishing. There is nothing to lose.
The second with heavy rust pitting, I'd probably toss it, unless I was in a pinch, and might try grinding it on a lathe before finishing hand polishing. One may lose some width, but should be able to cut beyond the pitting.
The question I've never answered is what kind of hardening is used. Is there surface hardening or deep hardening? It is possible I've been damaging surface case-hardening.
Also, if the Campy cones are super hard., then the polishing could be difficult.
I've been meaning to do pictures and maybe a video.
Ok, I have a hand polishing setup that I have successfully polished new, but rough cones of various brands, as well as cones with minor pits, off-brands.
I did try cutting deep pits from a Campagnolo Record/Nuovo Record bottom bracket. Man that was HARD to cut on a lathe, and I was only moderately effective while also making it narrower.
Anyway, for my hand polishing of cones, I went to the bike coop, and picked up some broken axles which I use as axle stubs.
I screw a locknut, then a backward cone on the end of the axle. And, chuck it up in a mini drill press.
I first hit it with 220 grit, then 320 or 400 grit, then 600 grit, and then wet 600 grit. Sometimes I'll wrap my sandpaper on an old round chainsaw file (the file itself didn't seem that effective).
I've successsfully polished away new surface imperfections, as well as minor pitting.
The last "rear" cone you have pictured, in a few minutes I could have a mirror finish on that similar to Record/Nuovo Record cones.
As far as the others, the first cone with moderate pitting, I might try the drill polishing. There is nothing to lose.
The second with heavy rust pitting, I'd probably toss it, unless I was in a pinch, and might try grinding it on a lathe before finishing hand polishing. One may lose some width, but should be able to cut beyond the pitting.
The question I've never answered is what kind of hardening is used. Is there surface hardening or deep hardening? It is possible I've been damaging surface case-hardening.
Also, if the Campy cones are super hard., then the polishing could be difficult.
I've been meaning to do pictures and maybe a video.
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You can repair the cones but the cost is very high. It would be cheaper to buy new hubs and rebuild the wheels. The way to repair them is to have them chrome plated then machined. It might take several layers of metal plating with hard chrome.