pkulak

But what is "great"? Can you lock up the back wheel on the hoods? If you need to stop quickly, do you palms hurt after from exertion? There may be great "modulation", but that doesn't sound like good breaks to me. I'm starting to think BB7s have a great rep because of MTBs they are installed on. For road... meh. Cantilever are probably much better.

AdamDZ

Any credibility you ever had in my eyes was just flushed down the toilet. Unless you're kidding and my sarcasm meter is acting up.

SnowJob

This tells me there is something seriously wrong with your setup. My experiences with cantis are that you need to squeeze the levers with a large amount of force in order to get any braking power out of them. Locking up the tires is only possible, in my experience, with higher end cantis. And in the rain they have very little power.

If your BB7s are set up right, you won't need to use much lever force at all to lock up the tires.

I went on a "road" ride today. Did about 60 miles through dirt, paved roads, mud, and gravel and my BB7s functioned perfectly. I'm getting to the point where I can hit the front brake and rear brakes just right to bring me to a stop much quicker than cantis or calipers, and on par with quality v-brakes. And in the rain, the BB7s lose absolutely no power. That's saying a lot, as I weigh 220 and my bike's about 25 lbs.

sirtirithon

I can skid with mine if i want to. I have done some steep single track drops with a full load of gear and had no trouble slowing my descent.

DX-MAN

I've been running BB7's for over 5 years now, and I have some input:

1. With XTR cables, they feel as good as hydraulics (at least, to me).
2. There are ceramic pads available as replacements for the stock pads; they equal the stopping power of the sintered pads, and the modulation of the organics. Plus, they LAST! 3 years and going strong on the present set....

When I added these upgrades, it cost me an extra $50 for the whole-bike setup. It was well worth it!

BTW, I run 185's f/r; had 203 up front, but I went OTB too often....

alan s 

I don't think your sarcasmeter is broken. It's good to hear everyone's opinion, even if it doesn't sync up with my or most other's real world experience.

canyoneagle

I have not used the BB7 road models, so I can only share my experience with BB7 Mtn calipers with compatible long-pull hooded levers (Tektro). My BB7's outperform any brake that I've owned in varied conditions (dry, wet, snowy, muddy). Lockup? Of course! If I want to. I prefer not to skid, though.
My points of comparison (excluding the ones that don't measure up) are:
- Avid Single Digit 7 V-brakes with salmon pads and SD-7 levers. These are great brakes. They offer similar stopping power and modulation in dry conditions (when set up the way I like them) to the BB7's. They do lose some effectiveness in the wet.
- Campagnolo Record (8 and 10 speed). Excellent brakes. Again, similar braking power to the BB7's in the dry, though the 23mm tires were the limiting factor there.

So, unless there is an inherently different performance level with the BB7 road setup, I think something is not right with your setup. Either the wrong levers, bad setup/adjustment, or flimsy cables.

If things haven't changed with Avid's specs, the easy way to tell which you have is the color of the calipers. Black=mountain calipers (long pull) silver=road calipers (short pull). Hooded levers are available for either.

ESW116

Braking in (or "bedding) brakes is absolutely not hokum. It is a must for new disc brakes.

As for the OP, have you tried cleaning your brakes? I have a feeling that, assuming they're actually set up and adjusted properly, a good cleaning of both the rotors and the calipers with rubbing alcohol will significantly improve performance. A lot of brakes out of the factory or new out of a LBS are actually dirty and covered with dust and oils, same with calipers.

Take a clean lint free rag and put some rubbing alcohol on it (70% or more by volume). Apply to the rotors and calipers, don't wipe it off once applied - just let it evaporate off, and voila, SUPER clean brakes. This also tends to get rid of squeaking.

I upgraded my MTB to shimano SLX hydraulics, and I felt the same thing as the OP. They didn't seem as strong as they should be, especially the front. I ended up cleaning the rotors/calipers and bleeding the brakes. The result was a HUGE improvement in power, feel and modulation.

Clean your brakes, folks.

cyccommute 

The response was "Huh?" as in "What are you talking about?" As in "You have no idea what you are talking about and are simply making stuff up." Your whole idea about v-brakes is completely off the mark and not within my experience nor have I ever read anything by anyone with braking issues that fits your description.

I have absolutely nothing against new technology nor do I have any particular love of obsolete technology. But I also don't go out and purchase new technology because it's new and shiny. I think the threadless headsets is among bicycling greatest invention. I think that STI brake/shifter levers rank right up there too. I think that external bottom bracket cranks do for bicycling what PVC pipe did for plumbing...i.e. any idiot with a hacksaw can do plumbing with PVC.

There are lots of other things about bicycling that I don't like...U-brakes (dumbest technology ever!), 10 (11, 12 or 28) speed cassettes without larger ranges, compact double cranks, integrated headsets, low spoke count wheels with proprietary parts, and, yes, disc brakes. It's not that I have a problem with these ideas it's just that they aren't really improvements nor are they significantly better than the technology they are replacing.

cyccommute 

Here's what Avid says about breaking in discs

Notice it doesn't say that you have to ride them for 200 miles or brake 1000 times or offer the blood of a freshly killed chicken to the moon on the 3rd day after the day before a new moon or any of the other mumbo jumbo that people push as to what you have to do to get good braking out of your disc brakes. "Between 20 and 40 stops" should be easy to achieve on a relatively short ride.

"Brake noise" also means they are going to squeal no matter what you do. Yes, keep 'em clean but expect them to squeal.

And, yes, I did break in all of my discs. Even followed the mumbo jumbo. The difference between a new pad/rotor combination isn't really all that different from one that is 'broken in'. And, again, lever mushiness isn't going to be affected by any kind of breaking in period. That's a different issue related to a different part of the mechanism.

ItsJustMe

I just changed the pads on mine and they were very soft for the first 100 miles or so - no matter how hard I squeezed I wouldn't get very good braking. Now it's broken in and working as it always has in the past - I can easily lift my rear wheel off the ground, and I'm riding a 45 pound bike.

I wouldn't be surprised if I only got 40 stops in 100 miles, so this is probably about right. My riding is a lot of miles with few stops.

FWIW these were cheap $5 Chinese brake pads. I've been running cheap pads off eBay for 4 years now and they've performed great and last about 2x as long as $18 Avid pads.

They get noisy in wet weather, but that's just what I expect out of discs. They still brake fine when wet.

cyccommute 

Read pkulak's first post. It's a new bike. That means that it should be properly set up, it should have the proper levers matched with the proper calipers, have the proper cabling, etc.

As for cantilever brakes, I could...and can... lock up the wheels with cantilevers on 13 of the 32 bikes I've owned...including 2 tandems. If I couldn't, I adjusted them until I could or I replaced them. And, again, skidding is hardly a measure of braking effectiveness. I can skid a coaster brake equipped bike as could just about any 10 year old...and coaster brakes aren't a 'good brake' by anyone's standard.

sirtirithon

What brand are these cheap pads? I'm curious to try them for that price and if they hold up like you say. Thanks!

cyccommute 

Look at it this way, 200 miles by bicycle is from 10 to 20 hours of operation. In an urban environment that's going to be hundreds of stops. If something isn't working properly until it's been used for that long, you aren't waiting for it to 'break in', you are waiting until you get used to it.

chaadster

I'm with Cyccommute on this...it's obvious the brakes are not set-up correctly, if only for the fact the OP can't lock up the wheels. It's also clear that this isn't a break-in issue, and again I think cycco is correct, because disc break in is never that big an issue.

I've got a BB7 equipped 700c Novara Buzz that I've been riding since '05, and the brakes have always been great, phenomenal in snow and rain. Sure, my old XTR V-brakes are awesome, too, but don't have the all-weather performance of the BB7 Discs. I have Haye's hydro discs on my Santa Cruz, and they're okay, but I prefer the feel of the BB7s, making them easier to modulate at the edge, IMO.

Aside from bad setup, I'd bet there's also a component mismatch going on here, either lever/caliper, or caliper/bike.

Did the OP confirm they've got the right model BB7 installed? Does the OP know how to adjust the pad/rotor distance, because that might be all it takes.

antonyfhilliard

My guess is the brake cable ends weren't prepared properly. If the cable is cut and left as-is, the housing stubs will flex and squish the ferrule. This will give 'spongy' brake performance.

Check those.

AdamDZ

But they do need to be broken in. That's not hokum. It's a fact. It wasn't me though who said that it requires 200 miles, that indeed was an exaggeration, but it's definitely more than the 20-40 stops mentioned in Avid instructions. It usually takes a few days for me, maybe 20-30 miles at most or one long ride. Also, I don't believe many bike shops know how to properly set them up and adjust the pads. I did try once to wear my Avid hydraulic brakes by riding around a parking lot and braking aggressively before going on the trail but I just ended up riding and they were fine by the end of the ride.

The bottom line is that BB7s on my heavy commuter with fat tires will lock my wheels. However, the ability to lock the wheels isn't a defining quality of brakes, modulation is, and I much rather not lock my wheels.

MileHighMark

It could be any number of things. Like everyone said, they need to break in. This means slow, deliberate stopping where the pads and rotors "bed in." If you or the mechanic just hauled ass down a steep hill, that's not cutting it (and is actually worse).

Some questions:

• Are the rotors straight/true?
• Are the calipers positioned correctly?
• Are the cables/housing of good quality and routed smoothly?
• Which levers are you running?
• Are the BB7s the road or mtb version?

BB7s are good brakes that are easy to set up. Unfortunately, some folks just don't "get it," and you end up with poor performance.

alan s 

Disc brakes don't need to be "broken in" to work effectively. However, as thay are broken in, their stopping performance will improve slightly. This is due to a mismatch in the new pad surface and new rotor surface. Over a short period of time, they will wear into each other, providing improved contact and stopping performance.

ItsJustMe

Brand? What is this "brand" you speak of?

I just went to eBay, searched for BB7 pads, and bought the cheapest ones that came up. They came two pads and a spring in a tiny ziploc bag, tossed into a padded envelope.

A few years ago I bought some the same way, those actually came vacuum wrapped onto a retail hang package for the same price. I don't really care one way or the other.

They're probably all made in the same place. They didn't have the same material as the original Avid but they're semi-metallic and they work well wet or dry, last a long time and don't wreck the rotor so I don't know what else you could ask.

jr59

I can not speak of a brake in (bad pun I know), because I bought the bike used.

But what I will tell you is that BB7s I have will stop on a dime and give change.
I ride a Co-Motion city view with the road BB7s and it stops this VERY heavy bike very quickly.
So quickly I need to be aware of it, fot it stops almost to quickly.

Better than my Pauls, or my Camy chours. MUCH better.

cyccommute 

I'd expect the same from a new wheel/new pad situation for rim brakes. The braking improves slightly upon wearing glazing on the pads off and wearing down the polished surface of the wheels. Slightly is the key here. If you have to go for the various distances and number of stops reported here and resort to black magic, you aren't breaking the system in, you are waiting until you get used to how it performs.

fietsbob

Eugene has a Bike CoOp on 1st st, go there and learn how to work on your bike,
there are people there to show you how to use the tools.

AdamDZ

Koolstop makes cheaper and good pads for BB7s. You probably don't want some cheap knockoff from eBay made of pewter

MileHighMark

I haven't tried the Kool Stop pads, but I always replace the stock BB7 pads with Avid's organic pads. Much better feel, and virtually silent, too.