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Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?

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Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?

Old 09-03-19, 12:42 PM
  #101  
Kapusta
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
I feel sorry for people that blame society for everything.
PE never burnt off any real amount of calories and nobody is experiencing drastic changes in appearance by doing nothing other than ditching inflammatory foods for two whole weeks
Cutting out gluten (or whatever it is in wheat, rye, and barely that wrecks me) made a huge difference in my health in about 5 days.

But (to make this topic-relevant) it made zero difference how I fit on a bike or how much I use the drops.
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Old 09-03-19, 12:46 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
An evil combination of tiny hands, poor (or poorly trained) hand-eye coordination, and too much complexity concentrated at the tips of too few fingers.

In the 10 days or so that I had the 2016 Trek 1.2, the two times that I took it out were straight out of a Harold Lloyd flick. Later that same year, I thought I should give myself another chance with this whole brifter business, so I went over to my sporting goods place and tried out a Fuji Sportif around the shop floor, just to see if my newly acquired briftophobia was real. I was on the bike for about 15 seconds when I crashed into a rack full of soccer T-shirts, right after I caught myself shifting gears instead of braking. To this day, I cringe at the thought of what might have happened if I had broken that Sportif's carbon fork! I was done. I went on to pick up my first new-old-stock 2014 Trek 7.6 FX and never looked back.

Maybe when I'm older and smarter.



I don't know about bar end shifters or barrel shifter (I had to Google that one and scroll deep down) but back when my old Raleigh Flyer was my primary mode of transportation in the 90s, I probably could've used a pair of stem shifters instead of the Raleigh's downtube shifters, since I was on the handlebar tops most of the time (that thing had suicide brake levers that I used a lot.)

With that being said, having trained myself to precisely select every gear with the old Raleigh's downtube friction shifters, it's a learned skill that I still cherish today, especially after I swapped out the factory five-speed freewheel for a seven-speed, which required me to be even more precise. But I was younger and smarter.
Back many years ago, I was really quite good with downtube shifters, and could just hit exactly the gear I wanted by feel without any need to fine tune and fiddle. Not having done this in 30+ years, I'm quite confident it would take me quite a while to relearn the skill, so dependent have I grown on brifters and triggers. I barely remember using stem shifters, but I do remember thinking that they looked like a more convenient placement than the downtube, but in practice were quite a bit more awkward. It's just harder to determine the lever position by feel, and it's not really a place on the handlebars you want to keep a hand for very long.

Part of being old and smart is knowing what you like and why. For some reason, brifters don't suit your hands well. I think it's very sensible for you to avoid them.
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Old 09-03-19, 12:50 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post

as for changing the body in 2-4 weeks is easy. especially stretching. Do you do it once a day, or 7 times a day?

just ditching the inflammatory foods, will change a persons size drastically in 2 weeks. even if the weight loss was minimal. and goes a long ways towards allowing the hips to rotate properly.
What does the duck say?
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Old 09-03-19, 02:51 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by DynoD500_SR20-d View Post
Now I find myself in the hoods and the top of the bars most of the time. If I bought my bike with straight bars it would not look as "racy". So my question is, "Are drop bars an illusion?" for most of us riders who want to fit in?

Maybe they are for many riders, but I would lay that at the fault of the rider who hasn't set up their bike correctly or values form over function (ie: running lots of drop just to look cool). If you are on the tops mostly, then raise your bars or size up the frame if needed so that all of the 4+ hand positions on a drop bar are comfortable and usable. Whether or not most people use the drops doesn't change the fact that they do work


Instead of everyone having a big share about how much or little they use the drops, how about discuss bike fit. The pros have their bike set up for what they do, which is not what 99% of us do. As you make less power, you will generally need a position with less drop to the bars to be comfortable. I think recognizing this would help a lot more people use drop bars more effectively.
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Old 09-03-19, 04:53 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I sure hope you don't descend steep mountain roads on the hoods, simply because "it's never been an issue". Yet.
As I've been doing it for 40 years, I doubt that it will ever be an issue.

Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I have two words for you "pot hole". Hit those unexpectedly on a fast descent, and you'll be thankful you descend only in the drops.
I've hit potholes as well. Still not an issue. Frankly, I don't see how your bicycle position would have any effect when hitting a pothole at any speed. The pothole is momentary. You aren't going to be able to brake to avoid it (for the most part) nor will you need the brakes after you hit it.

Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I have three other words for you "center of gravity". It's lower when you're in the drops, so you can brake harder while staying in control.
An argument could be made that being in the drops puts the CG too far forward on a hill and would make it harder to brake without going over the bars. In the drops, the rider also can't push back of the saddle as well nor as far. That has more of an effect on braking then moving the CG forward and down on an incline. That's the reason you don't find drop bars on mountain bikes. Those bikes are braked from nearly the same position as if braking from the hoods.
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Old 09-03-19, 05:51 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
As I've been doing it for 40 years, I doubt that it will ever be an issue.



I've hit potholes as well. Still not an issue. Frankly, I don't see how your bicycle position would have any effect when hitting a pothole at any speed. The pothole is momentary. You aren't going to be able to brake to avoid it (for the most part) nor will you need the brakes after you hit it.


An argument could be made that being in the drops puts the CG too far forward on a hill and would make it harder to brake without going over the bars. In the drops, the rider also can't push back of the saddle as well nor as far. That has more of an effect on braking then moving the CG forward and down on an incline. That's the reason you don't find drop bars on mountain bikes. Those bikes are braked from nearly the same position as if braking from the hoods.
you do know that it has nothing to do with braking, and has everything to do with maintaining control? meaning your hands didn't bounce off the hoods, or slide forward over the top of them.

and if you have ever hit a pothole at speed on the hoods, you'd know what happens.

You know what happens to a load that isn't tied down when whatever it was riding on comes to an abrupt stop? even momentary, as in hitting a pot hole. the load shifts.

now apply the same thing to your hands on the hoods.

who knows maybe you descend with a death grip? Or another possibility is that your bars are really high, and your hoods are angled up more than what would be the typical angle. Drop a picture of your bars?
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Old 09-03-19, 06:47 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
As I've been doing it (descending on the hoods) for 40 years, I doubt that it will ever be an issue.
Yours is a familiar response after a cyclist on group ride gets yelled at for doing something stupid and dangerous. If you're going to descend on the hoods, at least stay away from group rides.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Frankly, I don't see how your bicycle position would have any effect when hitting a pothole at any speed.
Hit a big pothole with your hands on the hoods, the bike suddenly decelerates, your hands come off the bars, and you crash. Hit a big pothole with your hands in the drops, your hands remain in the drops, and you maintain control.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
An argument could be made that being in the drops puts the CG too far forward on a hill and would make it harder to brake without going over the bars. In the drops, the rider also can't push back of the saddle as well nor as far.
If you had taken a bicycling course, you would not write such things.

The hard braking technique is hands in drops, cranks horizontal, chest down, and butt off the back of the saddle. I use it often on fast descents before a sharp curve. Learn it, practice it.
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Old 09-03-19, 06:59 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Yours is a familiar response after a cyclist on group ride gets yelled at for doing something stupid and dangerous. If you're going to descend on the hoods, at least stay away from group rides.



Hit a big pothole with your hands on the hoods, the bike suddenly decelerates, your hands come off the bars, and you crash. Hit a big pothole with your hands in the drops, your hands remain in the drops, and you maintain control.



If you had taken a bicycling course, you would not write such things.

The hard braking technique is hands in drops, cranks horizontal, chest down, and butt off the back of the saddle. I use it often on fast descents before a sharp curve. Learn it, practice it.
I naturally tended to use these techniques during hard-braking, especially when traveling downhill. It works wonders.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:32 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Cutting out gluten (or whatever it is in wheat, rye, and barely that wrecks me) made a huge difference in my health in about 5 days.

But (to make this topic-relevant) it made zero difference how I fit on a bike or how much I use the drops.
Cool but did it also make a drastic difference in your appearance?
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Old 09-03-19, 07:46 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Cool but did it also make a drastic difference in your appearance?
Does smiling more count?
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Old 09-03-19, 08:04 PM
  #111  
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These craigslistings made me chuckle due to this timely thread.

https://desmoines.craigslist.org/bik...968647297.html
https://desmoines.craigslist.org/bik...968675985.html


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Old 09-03-19, 08:16 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by philbob57 View Post
'Dirt drop' bars look a lot like 'randonneur' bars. I hate 'marketing'.
Hmmm

Tactical Dirt Drop bars would appeal to a whole other demographic.
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Old 09-03-19, 08:20 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
^^^ Hot.
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Old 09-03-19, 08:44 PM
  #114  
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This guy's done that, and he wants to be our next prime minister...

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Old 09-03-19, 11:05 PM
  #115  
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I think the pictures make a good point that's been brought up in multiple BF threads: A bike that's set up to fit the rider, might not look like the bike as it was set up for the promotional brochure, or for the showroom.
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Old 09-04-19, 12:41 AM
  #116  
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Seat is too low...
Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
This guy's done that, and he wants to be our next prime minister...

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Old 09-04-19, 12:47 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Tulok View Post
Seat is too low...
How'd you figure that? His left leg appears to be about as extended as it could go, with his toes pointing downward to boot. He looks totally electable there.
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Old 09-04-19, 06:06 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
How'd you figure that? His left leg appears to be about as extended as it could go, with his toes pointing downward to boot. He looks totally electable there.
That scowl says bugger off paparazzi.

If only he was waving, smiling, and kissing babies . . .

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Old 09-04-19, 06:16 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
That scowl says bugger off paparazzi.

If only he was waving, smiling, and kissing babies . . .

Well given his age he must be like bugger off everyone! I wonder if that Raleigh being red has anything to do with him towing the party line.
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Old 09-04-19, 06:53 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
That scowl says bugger off paparazzi.

If only he was waving, smiling, and kissing babies . . .

That scowl says "I am the reason Labour can't take over in a walk."
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Old 09-04-19, 07:00 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
At least the flats are level.
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Old 09-04-19, 07:20 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Yours is a familiar response after a cyclist on group ride gets yelled at for doing something stupid and dangerous. If you're going to descend on the hoods, at least stay away from group rides.
I've done lots and lots of group rides. I don't race and never have but I've ridden in lots of groups with people I don't know.

Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Hit a big pothole with your hands on the hoods, the bike suddenly decelerates, your hands come off the bars, and you crash. Hit a big pothole with your hands in the drops, your hands remain in the drops, and you maintain control.
No. No they won't. My hands aren't just resting on the hoods. I do have a grip on the hoods. Additionally, if my (or your) hands could come off the hoods when you hit a pot hole, they could come off the drops as well. In both situations, the rider should be assumed to have a fairly firm grasp of the bars...as well as having a firm grasp of the concept of having a firm grasp of the bars.

Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
If you had taken a bicycling course, you would not write such things.

The hard braking technique is hands in drops, cranks horizontal, chest down, and butt off the back of the saddle. I use it often on fast descents before a sharp curve. Learn it, practice it.
I have taken a course in bicycling...it called life. I know as much as any mountain biker about braking and I know more than the average road cyclist knows about braking. I probably know more than the average mountain biker since I have studied the mechanisms and physics of braking. Cranks horizontal: check. Chest down: check. Butt off the back of the saddle: check. Butt as far back off the saddle as you can manage: check. Hands on the drops: not necessarily.

Tell a mountain biker that their hands should be below the stem and see what response you get. It's probably the same response you'd get if you told them to use the front brake only.
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Old 09-04-19, 07:33 AM
  #123  
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on the drops your thumb is curled around the bar with your hand having no where to go but up or down.

On a flat bar, again the bar in between your thumb / fingers and in your fist. Your hands can't go forward without ripping your thumbs off.


So here is the Pop quiz: What is your thumb wrapped around on the hood to keep your hand from sliding up and off the hood?

Edit: someone might be blurring the line between group ride, and club ride. lol
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Old 09-04-19, 07:38 AM
  #124  
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Anyways for those riders that under stand the purpose of a drop bar. This new bar from Zipp is exciting.

https://bikerumor.com/2019/09/04/zip...ourse-70-xplr/

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Old 09-04-19, 07:39 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
you do know that it has nothing to do with braking, and has everything to do with maintaining control? meaning your hands didn't bounce off the hoods, or slide forward over the top of them.
What is with you guys and your idea that people who ride on the hoods don't have a grip on them? My hands don't bounce off the hoods because I have them in my grip...the same grip you would use on the drops. It's not like my hands can't grip the hoods because they aren't oriented properly.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
and if you have ever hit a pothole at speed on the hoods, you'd know what happens.
I've hit pot holes. Nothing happens...at least to my hands on the hoods. I've hit rocks. Nothing happens. I've ridden down some rocky trails. Again, nothing happens and in that situation I'm not about to use the drops...moves the CG too far forward and encourages endos.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
You know what happens to a load that isn't tied down when whatever it was riding on comes to an abrupt stop? even momentary, as in hitting a pot hole. the load shifts.

now apply the same thing to your hands on the hoods.
But my hands are "tied down" since I'm gripping the hoods while I push on the levers. It's kind of hard not to grip the hoods and push on the lever to apply the brakes.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
who knows maybe you descend with a death grip? Or another possibility is that your bars are really high, and your hoods are angled up more than what would be the typical angle. Drop a picture of your bars?
Not a death grip but a grip...just like if I were riding in the drops. And, yes, my bars are angled up more than would be fashionable but that all a horizontal drop is...fashionable. There is no advantage to having them flat and, since I and most of the rest of the world ride on the hoods most of the time, it's more comfortable to have the tops more horizontal.

Just to be clear, I'm not unfamiliar with riding on the drops. I do it occasionally. I've even braked from the drops. The argument that I (or other hood riders) will somehow lose our grip applies equally...and perhaps doubly...to drops riders. To brake from the drops, I have to extend my whole hand to grab the levers. The placement of the brakes and the (average) size of my hand does not allow me to keep a grasp on the bar with my ring and little finger like I can with a mountain bike bar. My grasp of the bar is only with a hooked thumb. If I were to hit your dreaded pothole at that point, there isn't much that would keep my hand from slipping off the bar and brake. Contrast that with how I brake from the hoods. The brake lever is pulled with the three outer fingers of the hand while the index and thumb are wrapped around the hood.

It's worked for 40 years and I've never had my hands come off the bars in a very wide variety of situations. I'm not slow when it comes to downhills and I'm not afraid that my hands won't be up to keeping me on the bike.
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