One key release on Shimano 600 cranks
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
One key release on Shimano 600 cranks
I have a bike with self extracting cranks (Shimano 600 EX), which I've never worked with before, so have two questions:
1.
Is this retaining ring damaged? Should it be replaced?
2.
There isn't a retaining ring on the non-drive side of the bike (like that when I got it). Should there be? Or is the retaining ring swapped between the two cranks during removal?
1.
Is this retaining ring damaged? Should it be replaced?
2.
There isn't a retaining ring on the non-drive side of the bike (like that when I got it). Should there be? Or is the retaining ring swapped between the two cranks during removal?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
1. Yes it's damaged. It shouldn't be cracked and the spanner holes are distorted. It's been abused as has the crank bolt.
2. Yes there should be an extractor ring on each crankarms so the one on the non-drive side is missing. Also, the crank bolt on the NDS has been replaced with a hex head bolt which is not part of the autoextractor mechanism.
I hope you didn't pay much for this crank. You can either find two replacement extractor rings and two compatible replacement crank bolts or replace both the surviving extractor ring and bolt with a new standard crank bolt and covers for both sides. A standard crank puller should be able to remove the crank arms in the future if you don't replace the autoextractor rings and bolts.
2. Yes there should be an extractor ring on each crankarms so the one on the non-drive side is missing. Also, the crank bolt on the NDS has been replaced with a hex head bolt which is not part of the autoextractor mechanism.
I hope you didn't pay much for this crank. You can either find two replacement extractor rings and two compatible replacement crank bolts or replace both the surviving extractor ring and bolt with a new standard crank bolt and covers for both sides. A standard crank puller should be able to remove the crank arms in the future if you don't replace the autoextractor rings and bolts.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,100
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4212 Post(s)
Liked 3,883 Times
in
2,318 Posts
+1 on the suggestion to replace the cracked ring with a dust cap and use a conventional extractor for any future service. Andy
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times
in
1,030 Posts
Toronto Cycles has inexpensive self extracting sets.
Take a good look at the threads on the left arm - the picture makes it look like they aren't there anymore.
Take a good look at the threads on the left arm - the picture makes it look like they aren't there anymore.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked 1,064 Times
in
747 Posts
I switched my Shimano self extracting bolts for something like these. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sugino-8-mm...cAAOSwHMJYOVmt Still uses an allen wrench, looks decent and cheap. Never liked the self extracting collars as they didn't hold up to using much force. Best to just use a proper crank arm extractor tool as HillRider mentioned.
Last edited by Crankycrank; 04-18-18 at 11:21 PM.
#6
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,567
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3683 Post(s)
Liked 5,451 Times
in
2,770 Posts
That's an attractive crank, like the pebbled accents!
#7
Senior Member
The self-extractors can work well, but that particular size doesn't jive with aluminum collars, as they were produced.
If you have to have than, White Industries makes self-extracting bolts for square taper cranks out of stainless (the bolt) and bronze (the extracting collar).
If you have to have than, White Industries makes self-extracting bolts for square taper cranks out of stainless (the bolt) and bronze (the extracting collar).
#8
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Retired to Penang Malaysia originally from UK
Posts: 346
Bikes: My 1978 Raleigh from new, 1995 Trek, & constant changing & rebuilding of other bike projects.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
One must wonder why the ring is cracked, as its good quality steel being screwed into ally crank arm ? to my mind the 1st thing to go would be the ally threads, see the enlargement it has several cracks, one wonders if someone has tried to undo the Allen bolt without taking out the ring ?
#9
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,182
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 889 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times
in
534 Posts
One must wonder why the ring is cracked, as its good quality steel being screwed into ally crank arm ? to my mind the 1st thing to go would be the ally threads, see the enlargement it has several cracks, one wonders if someone has tried to undo the Allen bolt without taking out the ring ?
Either the crank got loose, and the ring was the only thing holding it on, and failed do to loading, or, more likely, the crank arm is really, really stuck on the BB, and the ring cracked during a removal attempt.
#10
Banned
as someone who has had the self-extracting ring strip out the crank remove the ring, and throw it away ..
the more current bolts offer an 8mm hex socket,* include the function of the flat washer behind the bolt on the left
and a ring that covers the extractor thread from dirt, etc. and look nice..
there are a few pedals also using an 8mm 'allen' wrench, so getting a long one helps both..
As to your "should" I suspect you did not buy it new,
the past owner may have dumped the other self-extracting ring, for the same cracking..
...
the more current bolts offer an 8mm hex socket,* include the function of the flat washer behind the bolt on the left
and a ring that covers the extractor thread from dirt, etc. and look nice..
there are a few pedals also using an 8mm 'allen' wrench, so getting a long one helps both..
As to your "should" I suspect you did not buy it new,
the past owner may have dumped the other self-extracting ring, for the same cracking..
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 04-19-18 at 09:34 AM.
#11
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Retired to Penang Malaysia originally from UK
Posts: 346
Bikes: My 1978 Raleigh from new, 1995 Trek, & constant changing & rebuilding of other bike projects.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Undoing the allen bolt without taking out the ring is how self-extracting crank bolts work. The bolt head has a flange like the brim of a hat, that's almost the same diameter as the retaining ring, so when one backs out the crank bolt, the bolt pushes the crank arm off of the BB taper.
Either the crank got loose, and the ring was the only thing holding it on, and failed do to loading, or, more likely, the crank arm is really, really stuck on the BB, and the ring cracked during a removal attempt.
Either the crank got loose, and the ring was the only thing holding it on, and failed do to loading, or, more likely, the crank arm is really, really stuck on the BB, and the ring cracked during a removal attempt.
#12
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26427 Post(s)
Liked 10,386 Times
in
7,212 Posts
.
...it honestly looks to me like someone tried to pull the crank arms, didn't have any luck, and sold the bicycle as a result.
+1 on the suggestion sto simply abandon the self extractors, and return to conventional bolts and caps, if there's enough thread remaining to remove both arms.
...it honestly looks to me like someone tried to pull the crank arms, didn't have any luck, and sold the bicycle as a result.
+1 on the suggestion sto simply abandon the self extractors, and return to conventional bolts and caps, if there's enough thread remaining to remove both arms.
#13
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,792
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3591 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
1,935 Posts
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,086
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times
in
1,030 Posts
There is no reason to conclude that all self extracting systems are problematic just because this early verision cracked. Current system use a thin formed piece that likely flexes instead of cracking like the solid (cast?) steel version in this late '70s crank. Campy used their own version for many years as well. They are fine for occasional crank removal.
They also look nice.
Just like using an extractor tool, it is important to make sure that the collar is tight in its threads and there is grease between it and the bolt shoulder. I like to use some blue loctite on the threads to make sure they stay tight so you don't have to stick a pin spanner in it every time you want to use the extractor feature.
They also look nice.
Just like using an extractor tool, it is important to make sure that the collar is tight in its threads and there is grease between it and the bolt shoulder. I like to use some blue loctite on the threads to make sure they stay tight so you don't have to stick a pin spanner in it every time you want to use the extractor feature.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
1. Yes it's damaged. It shouldn't be cracked and the spanner holes are distorted. It's been abused as has the crank bolt.
2. Yes there should be an extractor ring on each crankarms so the one on the non-drive side is missing. Also, the crank bolt on the NDS has been replaced with a hex head bolt which is not part of the autoextractor mechanism.
I hope you didn't pay much for this crank. You can either find two replacement extractor rings and two compatible replacement crank bolts or replace both the surviving extractor ring and bolt with a new standard crank bolt and covers for both sides. A standard crank puller should be able to remove the crank arms in the future if you don't replace the autoextractor rings and bolts.
2. Yes there should be an extractor ring on each crankarms so the one on the non-drive side is missing. Also, the crank bolt on the NDS has been replaced with a hex head bolt which is not part of the autoextractor mechanism.
I hope you didn't pay much for this crank. You can either find two replacement extractor rings and two compatible replacement crank bolts or replace both the surviving extractor ring and bolt with a new standard crank bolt and covers for both sides. A standard crank puller should be able to remove the crank arms in the future if you don't replace the autoextractor rings and bolts.
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I’ll need to decide on what to do. I like the idea of self-extracting cranks, but am perfectly ok with a more traditional system.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I switched my Shimano self extracting bolts for something like these. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sugino-8-mm...cAAOSwHMJYOVmt Still uses an allen wrench, looks decent and cheap. Never liked the self extracting collars as they didn't hold up to using much force. Best to just use a proper crank arm extractor tool as HillRider mentioned.
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
as someone who has had the self-extracting ring strip out the crank remove the ring, and throw it away ..
the more current bolts offer an 8mm hex socket,* include the function of the flat washer behind the bolt on the left
and a ring that covers the extractor thread from dirt, etc. and look nice..
there are a few pedals also using an 8mm 'allen' wrench, so getting a long one helps both..
As to your "should" I suspect you did not buy it new,
the past owner may have dumped the other self-extracting ring, for the same crackin
...
the more current bolts offer an 8mm hex socket,* include the function of the flat washer behind the bolt on the left
and a ring that covers the extractor thread from dirt, etc. and look nice..
there are a few pedals also using an 8mm 'allen' wrench, so getting a long one helps both..
As to your "should" I suspect you did not buy it new,
the past owner may have dumped the other self-extracting ring, for the same crackin
...
No, I the cranks came on the bike and I didn’t buy them new. That would make sense that the ring was dumped due to cracking.
#20
Senior Member
The right doesn't have a self-extracting bolt. A 15mm socket will fit on that bolt and a conventional extractor tool will remove the arm. I would remove the ring and allen bolt on the right side and use the tool to remove the crank.
I have self extracting bolts on my bike and they work fine.
TA Auto-Extractors
I have self extracting bolts on my bike and they work fine.
TA Auto-Extractors
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 2,556
Bikes: Airborne "Carpe Diem", Motobecane "Mirage", Trek 6000, Strida 2, Dahon "Helios XL", Dahon "Mu XL", Tern "Verge S11i"
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 584 Times
in
401 Posts
My road bike has Shimano self-extractors which have worked well many times over the last 17 years.
I got titanium crank-fixing bolts with self-extractors from Toronto Cycles for my Tern folder. I also replaced the SS chainring hardware with Ti equivalents. There's less corrosion, the Ti parts look nice and I saved about a half a gram!
The image of the chainring and crank is split horizontally, with the top half showing SS hardware and the bottom Ti. In the other images, the SS parts are on the left and Ti on the right.
Steve
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
That's a good question.
The obvious thing to try first is a pin spanner, after a liberal dose of WD40 or something.
I'd get someone to help by simultaneously tapping on each part of the ring with a punch. If that doesn't work, well... A painstaking hour or two with a Dremel?
I guess ideally, there'd be a tool to fit that you could pop into a rattle gun, but you'd have to make it.
The obvious thing to try first is a pin spanner, after a liberal dose of WD40 or something.
I'd get someone to help by simultaneously tapping on each part of the ring with a punch. If that doesn't work, well... A painstaking hour or two with a Dremel?
I guess ideally, there'd be a tool to fit that you could pop into a rattle gun, but you'd have to make it.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,408
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,982 Times
in
1,921 Posts
retaining ring pliers might get enough bite in that.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!