bfloyd6969

I have switched my road bike to a flat bar and was wondering if the stem reach should be adjusted a bit. To others that ride flat bars on their road bikes, have you extended the stem length some to a position that would be in between riding on the tops and riding on the hoods - kind of to achieve an "in-between" reach? Or, do you just leave the stem length alone and ride it as if you would be riding on the tops of a drop bar? I was fit for riding with a drop bar with a 110mm length stem and was thinking of trying a 130mm stem with the flat bar... opinions?

ColinL

you could triangulate it based on the width of your flatbars.

a pro xc type bar at/under 600mm width would need a longer stem, but a 730mm dh bar probably wouldn't.

RollCNY

It all depends on the fit you want. If you want the exact same back angle as in hoods, then you have to lengthen stem (given a reasonable width flat bar). If you want to simulate the brake position of a TT bike, then you don't. If you want a more upright, then don't.

The math and measurements on my flat bar is much shorter than my drop bar bike, and it is by no means uncomfortable. Seat to bar drop is higher on my flat than on my drop. Tweak it to suit you, as I think flats on the road are a very personal fit.

BarracksSi

It would make sense to me. I shortened the stem when converting my commuter from flat bars (slightly swept, too) to drops, so I'd go the other way if I switched it back.

I really should do a long ride on it first before I settle on the shorter stem, though.

bfloyd6969

Thanks for the replies! My flatbars are 580mm wide with a 5 deg sweep. I don't feel crunched up with the 110mm stem, but there are alot of times (especially during lengthy, not so steep climbs) that I will rest my wrists on the bars and I like the slightly more outright position. I think I'll give it a go and see how it feels....

hueyhoolihan

i've converted all my road bikes to flat bars. i was running 100mm stems now i run 140mm. i think i could get away with 130mm though. great for climbing.

Campag4life

To dissent from Colin, because we like doing that to one another ...yes triangulating matters...but I will infuse some sense to
Colin's comments....a narrower handlebar reduces reach and a wider handlebar increases reach. But most for road biking on the street will not choose a 730mm dh bar...that would be silly. Most ride flat bar road bikes in the 600mm range...what I do.

Second difference and this is more substantive....a drop bar sweeps forward aka hoods extend in front of the stem clamp centerline and a flat bar sweeps rearward...generally on the order of 6-12 degrees. This completely changes the cockpit dimension.

Will give you some basic numbers of what I ride which incidentally is also what Lance rides between his two bikes within a couple of mm's:
road bike top tube: 582mm
29er flat bar bike: 622mm

difference: 40mm

This is a reasonable rule of thumb difference if you don't ride too wide of a flat bar.

Also OP...this is the reason that converting a road bike to a flatbar bike isn't a very good idea...because the top tube is not long enough.
If you study the geometry of flat bar bikes...most have a long top tube for the same size compared to a road bike.

Now if you don't want to sell your converted road bike, then by all means, increase the stem length. But you would be better served to choose a road bike with a longer top tube to begin with or a flat bar specific road bike.

Hope that helps.

Campag4life

+1 Good advice. It does depend on whether you want your flat bar bike to have the same fit as your roadie. For me, I prefer my flat bar to be higher than my drop bar bike but I need a much longer top tube to get the bar out in front to compensate for the sweep rearward versus a dropbar sweeping forward.

mynameistaken

I just switched from a 100mm with a 6 degree rise to a 120mm 0 degree rise. That is as low as I want to go for now.

gregf83 

OT, but what's the advantage of converting to flat bars on a road bike?

hueyhoolihan

for me, the width and hand position facilitate climbing and i don't use the drops on road bars anyway.

ColinL

did you attempt to solve that problem, such as raising the bars or doing some flexibility exercises?

btw I am not picking on you and I hope you don't feel that way. I'm geniunely curious because I know that quite a few riders don't use the drops.

gregf83 

I presume you mean while standing? I always found climbing more comfortable on my road bike than mountain bike. I thought handlebars on a road bike were sized to roughly match your shoulder width. I expect flat bars to be wider which is a more unnatural position. Each to his own I guess.

RollCNY

Not that I am the celebrity spokes model for flat bars, but general comments:
1) Using flat bars is not a lack of physical conditioning that needs to be trained away.
2) Raising the drop bar portion to the height of flats is silly, as it would put the hoods and tops 4" higher than your flats, so you could sit bolt upright going down the road. You would then have one meaningful riding position (the drops) which destroys the whole non-sensical "drops give more hand positions" bunk.
3) On drop bars, your palm is perpendicular to the road surface 90+% of the time (on the hoods, in the drops, in the top curve), and only become parallel to the road in one position (on the tops). Why do I mention this? Because my wrists get tired, and I can vary my hand position, wrist position, load bearing contact point, and elbow bend far easier on flats. On drop bars, the tops is the least used position, is uncomfortable if you have large hands, and stinks for climbing, because you close off your shoulders.
4) Flat bars on the road are usually fairly narrow (mine are 550 mm wide), and are not always riser bars. You can get a lot of variety in flat bar to tailor comfort. Mine are straight bars, with a 3 degree bend that I have pointed mostly down. Which again means I can tailor a fit exactly to my desires. They didn't come stock this length, I incrementally hacked til I had what I wanted.
5) I own a bike with drops, and use it at times. Short fast rides. All day rides are the flat bar bike.

Most importantly, on group rides, flat bars anger every rider you pass. That is almost reason enough.

ColinL

in bold:
rest your arms at your sides. look down. which position are your hands in? is it more similar to the position of a flatbar or riding on the tops, or is it like the drops/hooks/hoods?

bring your arms in front of you, again, just naturally.

riding flatbars involves rotating your hands inward, on the thumb side, considerably beyond the natural angle. ergonomically it should be clear that this is not a superior position.


underlined: this makes no sense even if you have bar ends, unless you really are just that much more comfortable with flat bars. there is no way a majority of people would agree with you that a flatbar has more hand positions than drop bars.

you probably are best at whatever you practice most, if you rarely do another. therefore I'm sure there are riders who put in 90% of their hours on flatbars, and their wrists and hands feel better than the 10% they do on drop bars. and the reverse is also true.


I am not at all trying to say that I'm better than riders who love flatbars or even to change anyone's minds. I'm saying that biomechanically it should be obvious that dropbars have advantages.

hueyhoolihan

don't worry, i'm not easily offended. mostly i'm not even sensitive enough to be aware of any type of criticism.

but to answer the question. i resolved the issue by removing the unnecessary portion of the handlebar and replacing it with a wider one that lent efficiency to my climbing. in order to keep the same reach to the tops i increased the length of most of my stems to about 140mm.

i run about 2-4 inches of drop from saddle to stemclamp. that works well for my daily 20-30 mile rides. i don't believe flexibility has much to do with comfort vs. drop. i doubt whether i am demonstrating more or less flexibility that i would be sitting bolt upright against a wall.

holding one's head up to look forward while in that position is another matter. mostly muscular, i think.

bfloyd6969

Alot of great replies and information - thanks to everyone!!

RollCNY

Gee Colin, I did this (looking silly in my office), and as I lifted my arms, my hands rolled in. If I rode a bike with my hands at my side, like a penguin, then your description might be helpful. I do triceps exercises with my hand oriented like drops and hoods, and bench press with my hands oriented like they are on flats. This information is equally meaningless.

Ultimately, drops are a wonderful thing, and I am glad that the majority of folks prefer them. I have them on one bike. My single speed came with flat riser bars that are horribly uncomfortable, and I have drop bars en route to change them out.

I am not arguing that flats should replace drops. But the folks who tell me that I ride flat bars out of ignorance or lack of flexibility are themselves inherently ignorant and inflexible.

Campag4life

Excellent defense of flat bars and well stated. Drop bar versus flat bar debate will never die including on many touring forums. Flat bar bikes still outsell drop bar bike for the simple reason that are more comfortable to most. I too am a practitioner of flat bar riding and probably overall find them more comfortable than drop bars for the reasons you state. I also ride with Ergon grips and Cane Creek bar ends and its a great combo. I like both. For aggressive riding, I prefer a drop bar bike but I really like to own both styles of bike to mix it up. It would be a difficult choice to pick between the two but would likely choose the flat bar.

ColinL

love it. don't agree at all, but we're not ever going to so I'll just move on.


but you were so wrapped up in this that you didn't answer me how you feel your flatbars have more hand positions... still curious to hear that rationale.

RollCNY

Good answer! And I don't mean to sound snarky, it just gets old defending the bars to every roadie who sees them.

Everyone rides differently, but my flatbar bike has Ergon GX-2 grips. Bad pictures to follow.

Most common, elbows slightly bent

Aero position, elbows touching sides

2nd most common, similar to hoods, elbows bent more than spot 1 but less than 2

Alternate aero position, elbows not quite at side, takes a fair amount of core strength

Lazy invisible aerobars, very common on trainer, have used on road only to open obstinate packages like raccoon washing fruit

Edit: Ignore the green pool noodle lurking in several shots. It is more afraid of you than you are of it.

RollCNY

OP

One thing I did to customize my flat bar was to buy several dirt cheap flat bars on Amazon to determine what I liked the best, before wrestling stem length. Often times, written descriptions don't convey what a bar will really be like, so I would find $8 versions of different styles to try first hand. For a little bit of coin, you can get first hand feel for what works, and then tune stem length from there. Caution: this may drive your spouse to say things like, "Seriously? How many handlebars do you need?"

In addition, if you cut an aluminum handle bar in half, it makes a great light weight cheater bar for allen wrenches and even open end wrenches. I cut it at the stem clamp 31.8 area, and then hammered that section flat. Wrenches slide in and stay oriented.

bfloyd6969

Thanks, I agree - and she already does think I have too many bike parts

I just placed a new order today for a longer stem - 130mm +- 6 deg:



and a new shorter flatbar - 500mm x 20 deg sweep:



I got the deep sweep because it is a more natural position for my wrists. Plus, I can also (and do) ride on the straighter sections closer to the stem for more aero and alternate hand positions. My current flatbar is a 5 deg sweep and I think I will appreciate the 20 degrees.

tkm

Seems to work ok for mountain bikes, motorcycles, ATV's, etc. If the superior position were different, one would think that other handlebar'ed vechicles would adapt this.

ColinL

brilliant!

those vehicles have a lot more steering input than road bikes. ever wonder why motocross dirtbikes have wide, flat bars and motogp sportbikes have narrow, highly swept bars? hmm...

drop bars work well for road bikes as you change body position to descent, sprint, climb, and cruise. in this thread, I am not surprised that people favor flat bars nor do I care to try to change their minds.


and I commend rollcny for his pics. it does look like he's got plenty of positions there, although some are probably infrequently used.