DaveLeeNC

My DOB is 1949 (IOW, I am old) and I have (per an MRI) severe arthritis basically deep in the ball joint of my left shoulder. Soft tissues, on an age adjusted basis, are in pretty good shape. My biggest problem right now is cycling which really triggers the shoulder issue. Based on just how things feel and the fact that cycling is no issue at all on my (similarly set up ) indoor bike, I am convinced that road vibration is the problem. I ride a 2020 Trek Emonda SL6 and/or an older EL/OS steel frame Bianchi (upgraded groupset) and don't notice much of a difference between the two. They both have conventional butyl tubes and Conti 5000 25mm tires. I definitely cannot go bigger on the Bianchi - not sure about the Trek. I ride on mostly country roads that are typically in decent repair but vary from smooth asphalt to chip/seal crap.

Right now I have added some foam insulation (designed for water pipes) wrapped around the handle bars near the hoods (where I spend most of my cycling time) for vibration reduction (plus a decent set of cycling gloves). My question is "has anyone else run into this issue and how did you deal with it". There are lots of things to do here from a different/better handlebar vibration insulator to more supple tires with latex tubes, maybe better cycling gloves, or I suppose that something like the suspension on the Trek Domane (as an example) might help, although that is a bigger step than I had in mind here. I was just looking for some guidance to help streamline the trial and error process.

Any input/perspective would be appreciated - thanks.

dave

ps. For reference I ride 120 to 180 miles per week and can still crank out a solo 19 mph ride on a good day.

rsbob 

I would recommend changing your hand position from the hoods to the bar tops to relieve the pressure on your shoulder. Also either double wrap the bar tops or use your insulation strategy. Doing more core strengthening exercises will also reduce the amount of pressure on your shoulder leaning forward. In addition, try raising your stack height.

The ultimate solution would be a shoulder replacement, but I know that is a big ask especially if it doesn’t bother you otherwise.

Best of luck.

Iride01 

As I get older I find I do less and less. And as my muscle tone decreased I found I had more aches and pains where I didn't before. So I've started doing more and more different exercises. If you don't have a exercise regimen or do activities to keep your muscle tone, then I recommend you consider one. Even join a gym if the social interaction will encourage you to exercise more.

Cycling doesn't do much for any of your muscles except for the heart muscle and lungs. IMO, even legs muscles don't get worked through their full range of motion as they should. And hands, arms and shoulders do little muscle work at all, yet they have to bear a lot of the bumps you encounter along your ride. So having good muscle tone in those areas to support the bones and other structures will go a long way to help prevent aches, pains and even numbness.

MoAlpha

I assume you are not riding stiff-armed (like a guy with a weak glutes or an ill-fitting bike), and transmitting energy to the shoulder through a locked elbow...

john m flores 

I've read good things about the new generation of suspension stems from RedShift and others, not regarding your particular condition but overall comfort. Might be worth trying out.

Also, the current trend is larger volume tires at lower pressures (thanks to tubeless).

Best of luck. I hope to be riding when I get to your age too!

zandoval 

Yep... We do what we have to do to keep riding. I have an old PR10 set up for the road. When I get off of my Ravel bikes and take it for a ride I too have noticed its a bone rattler. And that on a long 70s Peugeot frame. I have alleviated some of the jarring by using some High Density Foam grips on the bars made by SunLite. They were pretty popular in the 70's as I remember. My old PR10 is soon to be taken off the wall and parted out cause I really don't use it. At 70 I am sticking to my 80s Ravel bikes with the 34mm tiers, long wheel base geometry, and bull horn bars set up for a relaxed ride.

We do what we have to do...

Note: Shoulders are hard to treat. Often shoulder pain from vibration is related to loss of muscle mass in and around the rotator cuff. Strengthening the muscles around the rotator cuff is real hard. They break down with age so even if you have not injured yourself you can have shoulder pain from atrophy. There are not many easy ways to strengthen a rotator cuff. Even with diligent therapy it can take months to build up those muscles and then you must keep it up. I would recommend doing just a few exercises twice a day with no weight and also work the exercises into your pre-ride stretching routine. Tightening the muscles in your rotator cuff before a ride will bring that shoulder back up into its socket giving you less pain.

Look up Youtube:

Shoulder Isometrics 4 Way Stretch Exercise - Physical Therapy Exercises

The BEST Rotator Cuff Strengthening Exercises (Science-Based)

zandoval 

Yep... Time to set up your

Ravel Bike...

https://copavementsolutions.com/asphalt-raveling/

chaadster

I’ll second the Redshift ShockStop stem; it gets rave reviews from the (three) people I know who use it.

Another item worth looking at for vibration attenuation is the Spank Wing 12 Vibrocore handlebar. It has some kind of foam inside the bar to damp vibration.

DaveLeeNC

Thanks for all the comments. Just as a related side note, this whole thing is really irritating. Less than a year ago my left shoulder was like #4 on a list of things that hurt. I am bone on bone in both knees, have "severe" (that is what the MRI said) spinal stenosis, and carpal tunnel just to round things out. As part of my spinal stenosis plan I switched from crunches to planks. As I said my shoulder was mostly not on my mind, but just one week of planks and my shoulder was suddenly #1 on my list of things that hurt. There is something about exercises to treat pain A then causing pain B to go from almost ignorable to a huge problem that is really irritating.

dave

ps. But the good news is that my spinal stenosis seems to be in complete remission (as far as pain is concerned). I am close to 2 years since my last spinal epidural. And that issue (by far) presents the highest risk to my future mobility.

SoSmellyAir

Are you already riding CF handlebar with flatter or ovalized tops which should help attenuate vibrations?

DaveLeeNC

FWIW, just a rehash of my thinking after having slept on all of this.

There are a couple of interesting equipment suggestions to consider. I guess that I will take them in order of cost unless there is some way to quantify efficacy without an experimentation. And the setup and (hand placement) things would seem to be the logical starting place. On the question about my handlebars, they are both CF but nothing special WRT vibration damping.

General strengthening of the shoulder joint specifically for the purpose of improving my physiological response to vibration is an interesting thought. It did not come up in my MRI discussion with my PA, but it makes a good bit of sense regardless. It might even change my mind about deciding not to pursue PT...just a thought. My exercise thoughts prior to that had been more focused on recovering from the general left side strength deterioration from having tended to avoid using my left arm. Maybe that should change.

Thanks again for all the helpful input.

dave

SoSmellyAir

CF handlebar is a good start but the cross-section of the top (e.g., flattened or at least ovalized) also contribute to its flexibility and vibration attenuation. If you need more, then a shockstop or similar stem.

DaveLeeNC

Thanks - and I am hoping to somehow avoid having to go too far down the equipment path as I have two bikes that I enjoy riding (which obviously doubles the cost) and parts to fit my mid-1990's EL/OS Bianchi frame can be tough. But I appreciate the input.

dave

Camilo

I'm only a few years younger than you (only 70). I'm going to make the radical suggestion of getting a new bike. You like road style bike and like riding a lot, evidenced by owning two nice bikes. Unfortunately, you're body isn't liking those bikes any more. You're old, and stuff happens as youi age that just requires sometimes significant adjustments.

Invest in the healthy sport you love, get a new road bike that will handle at least 35mm tires. If not now, when? You going to wait a couple of years to decide your current equipment isn't working with your 74 year old body?

People have made some suggestions. But, all the tweaking you can do with your current bikes - tires, tubes, padded tape, silicone handlebar pads under the padded tape, padded gloves, redshift stem, "better" handlebars, etc. are all worth doing. I do them all so I'm not disparaging the suggestions. But your existing bikes will still leave you with 25mm tires, and tire size is by a huge margin the most important factor. The other stuff suggested is very, very minor compared to tire size. I'm speaking of personal experience with sore shoulders and arthritic elbows. Wider tires are the ticket and you need a bike that will accommodate them.

By "road bike" I mean drop bar bike. In the past I've used cyclocross frames for this purpose, more lately what they're marketing as a gravel bike. In my experience, you can set either up to ride like a road bike with wider tires. You can get nice fast tires of that size. You'll enjoy it as much, probably more, than your current bikes, I'll bet, especially if you get a real nice one, which you deserve and are in the stage of life in which, again, "if not now, when?"

DaveLeeNC

Camilo That is not an unreasonable suggestion (new bike) and it is not impossible in my case. But I don't have confidence that a full shoulder replacement is not in my near term future. I just don't know how fast this will progress. And the truth is that a double knee replacement is, from a medical perspective, probably ahead of the shoulder in priority (I am bone on bone in all three joints) and I have spinal stenosis that is in mysterious remission (and THAT is a far more serious medical risk to my future mobility). All that typed I am not sure if that says wait or 'just do it know while you can still get around on a bike".

Just for grins I have attached a closeup of the contraption that I wear on my right knee (which historically has always been my 'good knee'). I don't think that I could do the training required for this ride right now on any bike but I don't know if the shoulder or the knee would be the first 'thing to go' in training.

dave

GhostRider62

Get a recumbent, problem solved. You will have no shoulder pain riding

I suffer from all the things OP has, plus I've broken the elbows, scapula and have had shoulder surgery to remove some of the calcifications and repair rotator cuff.

Flat carbon bars, shock stem, bike fit, fitness, wider tires at low pressure all help. I did PT 3x per week for over a year to help my shoulders and it helped a lot but it took a lot of effort to find someone who knew what they were doing. Or, periodically get steroid shots into the cuff.

DaveLeeNC

GhostRider62 I can see the logic of a recumbent, even if it leaves a sour taste in my mouth for no logical reason that I can fathom.

But since you have gone through all this equipment stuff, do you have a sense of which of the ones that you have tried seemed to be the most effective?

Thanks.

dave

chaadster

Another equipment switch would be worth looking at are Spinergy wheels, which use fiber spokes and really mute small vibrations and smooth the ride. Particularly if larger rubber isn’t possible or preferred, Spinergy are an effective option. I use them on my gravel bike, and think they’re really impressive in terms of ride comfort.

GhostRider62

I would recommend this shop, Josh knows his stuff. Steamer on this forum as well. I prefer what are called a tiller with a praying mantis type position because the arms lay on your chest at your side with zero pressure on your shoulder. I ride both uprights and recumbents. My next bike and last bike will be a trike....a velomobile to be more specific.

Your aversion is the snobbery of cyclists in general. You will be looked down on. My SN comes from a group of racers that I waited at a stop sign, one of them says, "Holy sh or fu, "It is Ghost rider".....my bike is black, my TT suit is black, and I guess I had blown by them at 35 mph doing TT workouts enough times that they knick named me.

https://zachkaplancycles.com/

DaveLeeNC

GhostRider62 Interesting story. I lived in Livermore for about 5 years in the 90's. IIRC, we bought our fridge from some place in Alameda (re: your bike shop suggestion). But a long way from here in NC.

dave

GhostRider62

I doubt you have a recumbent shop nearby. I got mine in Holland. At least Josh can offer suggestions, I have bought bikes over the internet many times but I also do my own work

tFUnK

Maybe test ride a new bike with fatter tires and see if that's a worthwhile difference? I have taken far fewer trips around the sun than you, but as I've gotten older, I too have noticed my body not being what it used to be. I have gradually started to adopt the "now or never" mentality when it comes to these sorts of decisions (of course, dependent on budget).

Doing exercises and PT are generally good investments into your prolonged health and mobility, but that doesn't mean you won't benefit from a new bike that's better suited to your current riding needs and physical condition.

jrobe

I think the issue is more just from the weight and pressure on the shoulder joint than on vibration. I think you need a bike with a different geometry that puts most of your weight on your butt and less (or little) on your arms. I think my mountain bike would be like this with a much more upright position and less of my body weight on my arms and shoulders. As an extreme example (and hope you don't have to go to this extreme), a city bike probably does this even more. For an analogy, when Dorothy was riding her bike on the Wizard of Oz, she had no weight on her arms and only used her arms for steering . I would much rather have a more upright bike than a recumbent bike.

DaveLeeNC

jrobe I honestly am guessing that it is vibration, but I truly do not know. And maybe it is simply wishful thinking here as I would prefer to stay with a conventional road type setup.

My data points are

1) I have my indoor bike set up pretty much like my road bikes and I do not encounter this problem indoors.
2) Maybe 7 years ago I started having extreme pain in my right wrist about an hour into a ride (I have two kinds of joints - the kind that hurts and the kind that is going to hurt someday). By the end of the second hour I could hardly shift my (Campy Chorus mechanical) RD. A change from virtually padless gloves to some well padded gel gloves fixed it 100% on the very first ride.

But still - may be wishful thinking on my part.

dave

Camilo

I have two arthritic elbows (old breaks), had rotator cuff on one arm three years ago, and now the other arm is being a problem. I have defects and disc issues in my lower back.

Post op from the rotator cuff surgery, I rode a recumbent tadpole trike for 2 or 3 months. It was fun. Not enough fun for me to keep it once I got the go-ahead to get on the two wheelers, but if my shoulders or any other body part requires it again, I'll get another tadpole.

I've learned to live with the sore elbows, all the tweaks mentioned in my post above and found that Sram and Microshift shifting works better for me pain-wise than Shimano. It's the long brake lever sweep shift that tends to be a problem long-term. Oh, and the Sram Etap AXS on my newest bike works really well for that. I'm lucky in that my shoulder issues (even pre-surgery) don't hurt while riding, and once I tweaked the fit on my road bikes, riding was actually one of the only active things I could do when my back was really bad (much better now).

Getting old is a **tch, but better than the alternative!