View Poll Results: Do you toe your brakes when you install/perform maintenance?
I usually or always toe the brake pads when setting up
44
56.41%
I never or rarely toe the brake pads when setting up
25
32.05%
It depends. Sometimes.
9
11.54%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll
Do you toe or not toe?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18378 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
Do you toe or not toe?
Someone posted a video about brake adjustment a few days ago. It spent a fair amount of time explaining how to toe the brake pads.
I've never done it. I aim for flat and square to the rims. And, of course, they wear into matching the rims.
As I understand it, the primary argument for toeing is brake squeal. But, I rarely if ever get squeal with my non-toed brakes.
I have, of course, heard the squeal... better than a bike bell
Is it hard pads, and perhaps rim material (steel?) that cause the squeal?
Anyway... who toes, and who doesn't toe?
I've never done it. I aim for flat and square to the rims. And, of course, they wear into matching the rims.
As I understand it, the primary argument for toeing is brake squeal. But, I rarely if ever get squeal with my non-toed brakes.
I have, of course, heard the squeal... better than a bike bell
Is it hard pads, and perhaps rim material (steel?) that cause the squeal?
Anyway... who toes, and who doesn't toe?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Munising, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,131
Bikes: Priority 600, Priority Continuum, Devinci Dexter
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times
in
37 Posts
I buy the Kool Stop pads that have the toe angle built in. That way I can slap them on and they just work.
#3
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,506
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7351 Post(s)
Liked 2,479 Times
in
1,439 Posts
Yes, I toe in. Long ago, we didn't have spherical washers. We just bent the caliper with an adjustable wrench. That worked fine for Weinmann and MAFAC calipers.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#4
Senior Member
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
I used to toe in caliper brake pads when the ones I had were fairly cheap and flexy. My current brakes (Dura Ace and Ultegra dp's) and pads (Kool Stop Salmons) are both strong and quiet with the pads aligned parallel to the rims. Current Kool Stop inserts no longer have the ridge on the trailing edge that set the toe angle and they don't need it.
I have had both canti and V-brakes where a fairly severe toe-in was essential to quiet them down.
I have had both canti and V-brakes where a fairly severe toe-in was essential to quiet them down.
#6
Banned
My Magura HS33 pads need no toe in..
Original Mafac pads you bent the post relative to the rest of the shoe..
When one of the old bike shops in Eugene closed, they had a Bushel basket full of Mafac Brake shoes..
...
Original Mafac pads you bent the post relative to the rest of the shoe..
When one of the old bike shops in Eugene closed, they had a Bushel basket full of Mafac Brake shoes..
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 02-05-18 at 05:57 PM.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,397
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,979 Times
in
1,920 Posts
never needed to, plus they are tapered outta the plastic encased cardboard wrapper.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 4,141
Bikes: More bikes than riders
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1446 Post(s)
Liked 762 Times
in
570 Posts
I regularly toe my brake pads. My bikes all have cantilever brakes -- either the traditional center pull or the newer linear pull. There always seems to be at least just a tiny bit of wiggle in the arms on the post mounts, and I've usually found the need to toe the pads (to mitigate noise). I have also come to prefer the soft and progressive feel of toed brake blocks (vs. ones that firmly contact the rim squarely).
#10
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,517
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2747 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
2,058 Posts
Even if they are toed in wouldn't they eventually become parallel to the rim with wear?
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,397
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,979 Times
in
1,920 Posts
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341
Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
226 Posts
#14
2-Wheeled Fool
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,346
Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 677 Times
in
457 Posts
I only toe-in if the pads are short ones, or if the rim is beat. I'm of the opinion that toeing-in brake pads isn't really necessary on longer pads that are curved to match the rim contour. Many people make the mistake of too much toe, and it will wear unevenly and too quickly in my opinion. Just very shallow angle is all that's needed. Usually brake pads squealing is a combination of dirty rim braking surface and poorly-fitted pads. Old pads, which were rubber, tended to harden up and make noise. My quick fix was to always run some non-woven abrasive pad over the rim braking surface (or steel wool, from back in the day before scotchbrite was available), and to rub the pads on a piece of sandpaper held on a flat surface. This would true the pads quite nicely, and it would be enough to give the brakes some new life.
#16
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,599
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Liked 721 Times
in
396 Posts
One of my bikes has brake squeal on humid days. I tried toeing the pads, less noise but still not silent. Thought about bevelling front and rear pad ends, like on drum brake liners BITD.
#17
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4560 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times
in
1,800 Posts
Ditto the Kool Stop Eagle 2 cantilever pads. Easy.
I do toe in the standard pads on my comfort hybrid V-brakes.
So far my old road bike's side pull brakes haven't needed toe in.
I do toe in the standard pads on my comfort hybrid V-brakes.
So far my old road bike's side pull brakes haven't needed toe in.
#18
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
That said, I use a very thin shim (like a rubber band) when setting up fresh brake pads, 'cause I'm impatient and don't want to bug people around me with noisy brakes any more than I have to.
__________________
RUSA #7498
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
Last edited by ThermionicScott; 02-05-18 at 10:19 PM.
#19
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,792
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
1,935 Posts
If the brakes don't shriek there's no compelling reason to toe them in. If they do shriek, I'll toe them in.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 2,159
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 913 Post(s)
Liked 515 Times
in
344 Posts
No toe in here unless absolutely necessary. Last set of pads I had I could feather the rear just right in the dry and get quite a loud harmonic vibrato to alert pedestrians. Now nothing
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
That's my policy too. I initially set up brakes square with the rim. If they don't scream at me, I leave them alone. If they do make noise, I adjust them however it's necessary to quiet them. Sometimes that turns out to be trailing edge first.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#23
Senior Member
I can't really figure out how my cantilever pads stay toed in, but I can't ride without toeing them in. The squeal is just too embarrassing.
#24
Senior Member
I've rarely, if ever, had squealing problems with dual-pivot caliper brakes (both short and medium reach), so I don't bother to toe them in. I have, however, never owned a cantilever brake of any type than did not eventually start emitting an ungodly shriek without frequent toe adjustments, even with Kool Stops, fork crown mounted cable stops (supposed to shorten the mechanical feedback path) different rims, different forks, etc. Which is why I now have discs on all my fat-tire bikes (touring, cross/gravel, etc.). I'm pretty happy with dual-pivot calipers on pure road bikes though, except in the wet.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,552
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,585 Times
in
2,344 Posts
when I remember. ugh, just remembered some squeal the last cpl times I rode my ice bike. easy to forget tho cuz I don't stop much