genejockey 

**** 'em if they can't take a joke.

genejockey 

One segment of my usual route is a long, mostly straight, fairly flat road, and I've seen flashing bike lights - either head or tail - from at least half a mile away, at dusk. Of course, everything around was fairly dark, or at least didn't have artificial lighting, so the flashies really stood out. But yeah, the lights are visible from much farther away than a cyclist would be, even if they're wearing chartreuse.

Alan K

Since bikers seem to like to bicker, the standard you speak of is really not so much of a standard as you indicated. Arizona and Hawaii couldn’t care less, a large number of countries don’t fiddle with their clocks. And soon many more states in US will no longer be doing it.

seypat

I really don't see a problem with using both.

genejockey 

Well, I mean - you can't spell "bicker" without "biker"!

BTW, before Standard Time, "Noon" was locally determined, so you could have a significant difference in what time it was across a large city. But you can't run a railroad that way! When Standard Time was adopted, there were a number of folks who protested it, things like putting the railroads before God, etc.

Alan K

Well, the original post didn’t ask about the front light so I didn’t volunteer the information but I too have been doing the same thing for a very long time.

It is a very good idea to make yourself as visible as possible.

Once I was told by my son when he was still young that probably a car will aim for me deliberately, if for nothing else than to kill my annoyingly bright blinky light in the front!

terrymorse 

BTW, the driver hit me, terrymorse (not eduskator ).

Alan K

Please don’t interrupt with facts.

njkayaker

Really? Red (for instance) appears to be a common (maybe, the most common) color for fire trucks. They are painted in a wide-enough range of colors to suggest that the color doesn't matter for fire trucks very much. Maybe a US thing. (Note that what applies to fire trucks might not apply to cyclists.)

Cop cars are often not painted in hi-viz (not talking about undercover cars). Kind of a US thing.

You definitely don't understand the purpose for these. These help with crossing traffic.

njkayaker

This is generally illegal.

jonathanf2

I'm not using them. Though if a cyclist is using them for safety reasons, I won't judge them if they opt for this type of lighting. Especially where I live, there have been way too many cycling deaths due to the lack of awareness on the part of drivers.

Alan K

Your not judging is irrelevant.
Mimicking police lights is illegal in our state, and I imagine most states.
We do have police on bicycles around the city and on bike paths.
Once they asked me to show my trail pass, which I don’t carry but I have its photo on the phone and they accept it as a valid proof that I paid my annual fee.
I’m sure if I had blue/red flashing lights, they will issue a citation.

jonathanf2

There are so many other crimes happening in the big city that a cyclist trying to use any means possible to increase visibility so they don't get killed is small potatoes. I'd rather not get doored to death, shot by gun point or run over during a high speed chase all while just trying to enjoy a bike ride. Not everyone rides in some backwater hick town.

Alan K

So your “logic” is that because bigger crimes are happening in your big and fancy city, you should be permitted to commit, what you consider, a small crime.
Fascinating non-hick attitude!

Maelochs

Look ... I don
't care about riders using blue lights .... I do think blue lights Should be illegal, because I like to know if it is a cop or not .... and one reason for blue lights being illegal for civilians is to stop people from pretending to be cops (or to charge them afterwards, actually ... )


And sure, there are a lot of crimes doing a lot of property and human damage happening all around all the time ... but seriously, how many people use flashing blue lights to advertise they are doing a crime?

Not a lot of logic there.

Maelochs

https://www.apa.org/topics/safety-de...ne-color-safet

https://www.firehouse.com/apparatus/...paratus-safety

https://www.firetruckmall.com/Blog/B...F+Red+or+Green

https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-pro...D8duhAuHGPo1x/

https://www.hmpgloballearningnetwork...your-ambulance

It is called "google."

genejockey 

No flashing blue lights in California:

(b) No person shall display a steady or flashing blue warning light on a bicycle or motorized bicycle except as authorized under subdivision (a).

(Subdivision A is about bicycle cops.)

I've seen some lights that alternate red and blue. Not sure whether they violate any rules.

eduskator

Not sure why someone would want to use blue light as a rear light, but whatever. I mean, you don't see cars with blue brake lights...

njkayaker

The first link is broken. It looks like they reference the same studies. That is, they don't add to the evidence; they just repeat the same evidence (which suggests you didn't look at them very carefully).

I'm not really surprised by the result. In any case, that red is still very common suggests that it doesn't matter much (that many people see the differences as not important). That is, if it "mattered much", there wouldn't really be any red fire trucks.

I was more making a comment that you've never ever seen a red fire truck.

========================

Really? Red (for instance) appears to be a common (maybe, the most common) color for fire trucks.

eduskator

My head hurts.

njkayaker

It's still "flashing blue". So, in a strict sense, it seems it still be illegal.

Either way, using any sort of blue light would seem ill-advised if one was concerned about the legality.

MoAlpha

Interesting discussion. One thing I can say with confidence is that what works in isolation on an empty road gets lost in light clutter when there's traffic. This may be one reason the cops use blue and why a contrasting color might make sense for cyclists. I experienced this one evening at a busy intersection, when an oncoming driver made a turn on red while was I making a left and nearly nailed me. We had a brief discussion after I stopped screaming, which made it clear that he missed the pinpoint of my fancy, high-intensity LED headlight in the mass of oncoming traffic. I assume the same thing can happen with red tail lights.

Anyone who has navigated a boat into a busy, lit-up, port at night will also have experienced this. One can miss huge ships at short range and blinking navigational lights can be simply invisible, even when you know exactly where they should be.

njkayaker

I didn't say you were using them.

Your original comment implied that they might be a good idea. But made no mention that they were illegal. Did you even know?

It needs to be clear that they are illegal.

Maelochs

up ....

Re: fire trucks .... trucks Not painted red were involved in a lot fewer collisions. Maybe that doesn't matter to some folks but ...

By the way three separate studies were mentioned, for those who think all the articles were referencing the same study .... and all found that red and orange can disappear in low-light conditions, and that fluorescent green vehicles were in the fewest accidents (per capita.)

This was not a case pf people watching video and pushing buttons,. This was an actual count of accidents involving emergency vehicles, and it was found the adjusted for proportion, red vehicles got hit a lot more. Three studies addressed the issue of emergency vehicle color starting int he late-'60s /early '70s and the latest in the past several years ... all had the same conclusion. Red and orange are least visible---invisible---in low-light conditions. People still paint fire engines red due to tradition .... because people are stupid.

Sorry some people think science doesn't matter ... but a lot fo people don't. Oh, well. Darwin still has a job, passing out those awards.

As MoAlpha notes, color, flashing lights, steady lights .... no guarantee someone will see you. if there is enough going on, and particularly in urban areas, or even downtown/business districts in suburbia, there are so many lighted signs, lights, cars with lights .... you could ride past a strip mall wrapped in multicolored Cchristmas lights and still blend into the background.

My takeaway is ... wear what you like, use the lights you like, do what makes you feel safe ... but a swivel neck, open eyes, attention, and a dollop of luck are what keeps us as safe as we can be on the roads.

Maelochs

Yup ....

Re: fire trucks .... trucks Not painted red were involved in a lot fewer collisions. Maybe that doesn't matter to some folks but ...

By the way three separate studies were mentioned, for those who think all the articles were referencing the same study .... and all found that red and orange can disappear in low-light conditions, and that fluorescent green vehicles were in the fewest accidents (per capita.)

This was not a case pf people watching video and pushing buttons,. This was an actual count of accidents involving emergency vehicles, and it was found the adjusted for proportion, red vehicles got hit a lot more. Three studies addressed the issue of emergency vehicle color starting int he late-'60s /early '70s and the latest in the past several years ... all had the same conclusion. Red and orange are least visible---invisible---in low-light conditions. People still paint fire engines red due to tradition .... because people are stupid.

Sorry some people think science matters ... but a lot of people don't. Oh, well. Darwin still has a job, passing out those awards.

As MoAlpha notes, color, flashing lights, steady lights .... no guarantee someone will see you. if there is enough going on, and particularly in urban areas, or even downtown/business districts in suburbia, there are so many lighted signs, lights, cars with lights .... you could ride past a strip mall wrapped in multicolored Christmas lights and still blend into the background.

My takeaway is ... wear what you like, use the lights you like, do what makes you feel safe ... but a swivel neck, open eyes, attention, and a dollop of luck are what keeps us as safe as we can be on the roads.