Combatting Washboard
11-05-18, 10:46 PM
#1
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Combatting Washboard
I'm moving into the market for a new bike, mostly for the purpose of bikepacking. I figure most of the bikepacking I'll do will be on gravel roads, and my main nemesis will be washboard. So I'm trying to figure out what to look for in a bike that'll be best against it.
Compared to a "typical" hardtail, In order of importance, how would you rank these in effectiveness against washboard?
Full suspension
Suspension seatpost/saddle (Thudbuster, Brooks Flyer)
Tire width
Tire diameter
Tire pressure
Frame geometry. In particular, length of chainstays?
As of now, I'm leaning towards going with 27.5+ hardtail. Would a different approach be better?
Compared to a "typical" hardtail, In order of importance, how would you rank these in effectiveness against washboard?
Full suspension
Suspension seatpost/saddle (Thudbuster, Brooks Flyer)
Tire width
Tire diameter
Tire pressure
Frame geometry. In particular, length of chainstays?
As of now, I'm leaning towards going with 27.5+ hardtail. Would a different approach be better?
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11-06-18, 06:38 AM
#4
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There is washboard and there is washboard. Are you talking about farm and ranch country where two wheel drive cars have no difficulty or are you talking about something like a 4X4 road?
Agree with the others, low pressure in wider tires is the first thing you want to look at.
Regarding sprung saddles, I use a Brooks Conquest on most of my bikes. The springs on it are probably identical to the springs on the Flyer. On that saddle my 180 pounds only deflects the springs a few mm. I mostly rely on that saddle to smooth out the buzz on something like chip seal pavement, the springs are way too stiff to provide any cushioning on rough roads. A sprung saddle won't help much with washboard.
Agree with the others, low pressure in wider tires is the first thing you want to look at.
Regarding sprung saddles, I use a Brooks Conquest on most of my bikes. The springs on it are probably identical to the springs on the Flyer. On that saddle my 180 pounds only deflects the springs a few mm. I mostly rely on that saddle to smooth out the buzz on something like chip seal pavement, the springs are way too stiff to provide any cushioning on rough roads. A sprung saddle won't help much with washboard.
11-06-18, 07:55 AM
#5
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This past summer riding from Kazakhstan to the Uzbekistan border I was faced with about 90km of washerboard road. As others has said go high volume and low pressure. I had 37mm tires, nowhere near wide enough, but that was all my old bike could accommodate.
11-06-18, 08:58 AM
#6
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another nod to wide tires and lower pressures over the extra weight etc of suspension, although I imagine its all about balancing what and how much rough stuff to be going over regarding front suspension--also, I dont have enough front suspension touring experience to comment.
I can say though that using wider tires on my Troll and being observant about varying pressures for diff surfaces made a huge difference in riding comfort and making bad surfaces doable and not beating me up too much.
In my case, these were 50mm tires used in my Latin America trips, but knowing you must be referring to the potential Baja trip, there will be ample up to date info online on what folks use tires wise, as well as the trail conditions and temperatures and water availability in various months.
Seems to me that what ive read of the baja trail ride is that 3in tires were recommended (the Trail ride obviously, not using the road route), and using sealant being a must--but you probably know this already.
Given that you did the Divide trail, you know how proper planning and realistic expectations of all the various conditions and angles of stuff is the most important part of planning and being prepared for things (well, responsible trip planning in any case).
I can say though that using wider tires on my Troll and being observant about varying pressures for diff surfaces made a huge difference in riding comfort and making bad surfaces doable and not beating me up too much.
In my case, these were 50mm tires used in my Latin America trips, but knowing you must be referring to the potential Baja trip, there will be ample up to date info online on what folks use tires wise, as well as the trail conditions and temperatures and water availability in various months.
Seems to me that what ive read of the baja trail ride is that 3in tires were recommended (the Trail ride obviously, not using the road route), and using sealant being a must--but you probably know this already.
Given that you did the Divide trail, you know how proper planning and realistic expectations of all the various conditions and angles of stuff is the most important part of planning and being prepared for things (well, responsible trip planning in any case).
11-06-18, 10:36 AM
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The Lauf fork got good reviews for how it handled the washboarding by record-holder Josh Kato. I've not ridden one on washboard and it seems like an expensive solution.
IME, tires and pressure are important as is overall wheel diameter. 29x2.35" handles the washboarding in north georgia much better than something like 26x2.2" or 27.5x2.3" - our washboarding is almost exclusively down/uphill so it's almost always going very fast or very slow. It's much easier to relax the body and float over/through it with the larger wheel diameters. Managed pressure is also important, too low pressure is almost as bad as too high - when the pressure is too low the tire will deform quicker than ideal and then "bounce back" out of sync which can make the bike feel like it's bucking more than it should.
IME, tires and pressure are important as is overall wheel diameter. 29x2.35" handles the washboarding in north georgia much better than something like 26x2.2" or 27.5x2.3" - our washboarding is almost exclusively down/uphill so it's almost always going very fast or very slow. It's much easier to relax the body and float over/through it with the larger wheel diameters. Managed pressure is also important, too low pressure is almost as bad as too high - when the pressure is too low the tire will deform quicker than ideal and then "bounce back" out of sync which can make the bike feel like it's bucking more than it should.
11-06-18, 12:30 PM
#8
Senior Member
My 0.02 on spring seats and very large tires.
I've tried several suspension seat posts and spring seats. I gave up on them, although they seem to ease the bumps a little, they moved to much during my normal pedal stroke on smooth surfaces at a decent cadence. I could crank up preload which reduced it but took away effect on the harsh bumps too. Tires.. Obviously there is a wide range of tire sizes and suppleness but the larger you go the more your bike will bounce under load with wider lower pressure tires. You may or may not notice depending on the terrain or it may not bother you. This is relative, I am perfectly happy with 40-45 but once I get up to 2.1 and MTB width it comes on quick. I never really read much about this or thought about those things before hand but noticed them both when I attempted to smooth out my rough rides. I don't like any added bounce or movement with my normal peddling, specially when I am doing it all day in a touring mode. On an XC ride, this is expected. I am about 190.
Pattern washboard and random bumps are different things, I'd think you'd hit diminishing returns on trying to smooth washboard vs other factors. Taking some of the harshness off of sharp bumps is not the same as reducing the additional up and down motion from going through some WB, it could even make it worse depending on the amplitude and your speed.
I've tried several suspension seat posts and spring seats. I gave up on them, although they seem to ease the bumps a little, they moved to much during my normal pedal stroke on smooth surfaces at a decent cadence. I could crank up preload which reduced it but took away effect on the harsh bumps too. Tires.. Obviously there is a wide range of tire sizes and suppleness but the larger you go the more your bike will bounce under load with wider lower pressure tires. You may or may not notice depending on the terrain or it may not bother you. This is relative, I am perfectly happy with 40-45 but once I get up to 2.1 and MTB width it comes on quick. I never really read much about this or thought about those things before hand but noticed them both when I attempted to smooth out my rough rides. I don't like any added bounce or movement with my normal peddling, specially when I am doing it all day in a touring mode. On an XC ride, this is expected. I am about 190.
Pattern washboard and random bumps are different things, I'd think you'd hit diminishing returns on trying to smooth washboard vs other factors. Taking some of the harshness off of sharp bumps is not the same as reducing the additional up and down motion from going through some WB, it could even make it worse depending on the amplitude and your speed.
Last edited by u235; 11-06-18 at 03:09 PM.
11-06-18, 03:05 PM
#9
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I only have a little experience with a front suspension, but the experience I have makes me think it would be overkill for most on-road travel unless the conditions were consistently very bad. Any suspension is going to sap forward momentum a bit, but I find that some larger, lower pressure tires are a good compromise between actual suspension and nothing at all. They don't add the weight and complexity of a suspension fork, and they also can be fine-tuned a little more. Rather than the on/off of a suspension fork (assuming it has lock-out), you can play with your tire pressure a little more and find out what works better for the surface you're on. On an all-pavement day, it's no big deal to firm up the tires for some more efficient pedaling, for instance. I don't really spend a lot of time playing with my pressure over the course of a day, but if I expect I know the type of surface I will spend the bulk of the day on, I will plan accordingly.
11-06-18, 05:55 PM
#10
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I'm moving into the market for a new bike, mostly for the purpose of bikepacking. I figure most of the bikepacking I'll do will be on gravel roads, and my main nemesis will be washboard. So I'm trying to figure out what to look for in a bike that'll be best against it.
Compared to a "typical" hardtail, In order of importance, how would you rank these in effectiveness against washboard?
Full suspension
Suspension seatpost/saddle (Thudbuster, Brooks Flyer)
Tire width
Tire diameter
Tire pressure
Frame geometry. In particular, length of chainstays?
As of now, I'm leaning towards going with 27.5+ hardtail. Would a different approach be better?
Compared to a "typical" hardtail, In order of importance, how would you rank these in effectiveness against washboard?
Full suspension
Suspension seatpost/saddle (Thudbuster, Brooks Flyer)
Tire width
Tire diameter
Tire pressure
Frame geometry. In particular, length of chainstays?
As of now, I'm leaning towards going with 27.5+ hardtail. Would a different approach be better?
The first item on your list is the best. All the others are bandaids in diminishing effectiveness, although I'd move tire diameter to the last on the list and maybe add front suspension after full suspension.Your legs and arms are going to provide the most suspension but a suspension fork will keep the bike straighter through washboards than a rigid bike. Rigid bikes get thrown around a lot on wash board and the front tends to wash out easily. That means the bike is harder to handle and a lot less comfortable.
My choice for off-road, as well as mixed off-/on-road, touring is a Moots YBBeat.
IMG_3144 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
DSCN1197 by Stuart Black, on Flickr The front shock offers great control and the rear suspension moves just enough to take the edge off and to allow for greater control on washboards. On washboards like this (and worse)
DSCN1147 by Stuart Black, on FlickrI was able to do 20+mph without issue. On pavement, the rear moves a little but the travel is short (1.5") so it's not that difficult to get used to.
My other choice of off-/on-road touring bike would be a Specialized Epic
DSCN0518 by Stuart Black, on FlickrThe Epic is about the best full dually that I've ridden. The rear locks out on smooth roads and when force is applied from above. This means that the pedaling is more like a rigid bike. But once the rear end is impacted from below, the suspension becomes active and the bike rides like a dually. It works incredibly well. The only issue is that it won't take a rack. I could probably live with that as I didn't use the rack on the last bikepacking trip I took.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
11-06-18, 06:16 PM
#11
Senior Member
Take a look at 29+
https://singletrackworld.com/2017/08...ountain-bikes/
No thud buster, no flyer, A 27.2 ti seat post sounds good,
Full suspension is comming to 29+ but is not ready yet, never buy the first model year or second either,
2.8 - 3.2 sounds good, if you are young enough and strong enough to move them, Find your own tire preasure not what others like.
https://singletrackworld.com/2017/08...ountain-bikes/
No thud buster, no flyer, A 27.2 ti seat post sounds good,
Full suspension is comming to 29+ but is not ready yet, never buy the first model year or second either,
2.8 - 3.2 sounds good, if you are young enough and strong enough to move them, Find your own tire preasure not what others like.
11-06-18, 07:41 PM
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The main hang-ups I have about rear suspension are:
1. When it comes to touring/bikepacking, simpler is usually better
2. Severely hampers your ability to pack well by taking away most of the space in the main triangle. The ones you posted certainly intrigue me, since they don't have this problem.
And I guess I wonder if it's overkill for what I'll usually be doing.
11-06-18, 10:12 PM
#13
Senior Member
Ybb = why be beat.
LEGENDARY-The YBB soft-tail is just enough to take the edge off small hits and not over complicate your life
Take a look at the modern geometry on this expensive bike,
Mountaineer YBB - Moots
lasts a life time.
comes with a lifetime warranty for orignal owner.
You did not mention if you have $5,000 for a bike.
I have looked but never found a used ybb in good shape for sale.
The rear suspension is just over 1 inch of travel.
For $380 the FLX-FR-701 ( 29er boost )
Free Shipping To Worldwide
comes with a one year warranty, you pay shipping back to China.
from flyxii carbon, China Direct,
https://www.flyxii.com/PRODUCTSDetial?product_id=30
If you need to buy a new frame in 2 years, well, so.
I figure YBB is the best bike out there, Not enough money. Get the modern geometry!
[QUOTE=cyccommute;20651542] is a Moots YBBeat.
IMG_3144 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
LEGENDARY-The YBB soft-tail is just enough to take the edge off small hits and not over complicate your life
Take a look at the modern geometry on this expensive bike,
Mountaineer YBB - Moots
lasts a life time.
comes with a lifetime warranty for orignal owner.
You did not mention if you have $5,000 for a bike.
I have looked but never found a used ybb in good shape for sale.
The rear suspension is just over 1 inch of travel.
For $380 the FLX-FR-701 ( 29er boost )
Free Shipping To Worldwide
comes with a one year warranty, you pay shipping back to China.
from flyxii carbon, China Direct,
https://www.flyxii.com/PRODUCTSDetial?product_id=30
If you need to buy a new frame in 2 years, well, so.
I figure YBB is the best bike out there, Not enough money. Get the modern geometry!
[QUOTE=cyccommute;20651542] is a Moots YBBeat.
IMG_3144 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Last edited by chrisx; 11-06-18 at 10:25 PM.
11-06-18, 10:18 PM
#14
Senior Member
What sort of bike did you do the divide on?
your 75 miles per day, 120kms, is a pretty hefty average.
your 75 miles per day, 120kms, is a pretty hefty average.
11-06-18, 10:59 PM
#15
Senior Member
Assuming you’re talking about going at a decent pace, I’d go with a lighter weight suspension fork with a lockout. Hardtail should be fine. Make sure you’re aware of a proper mountain biking stance of getting low and staying loose in order to let your legs absorb the bumps rather than bounce you around. If you have the money to spend, throw down on a full suspension with a lockout rear shock too. I’d think it unnecessary, but would make for a little nicer ride if you have the cash to blow. I put down a lot of miles on gravel in Costa Rica on 650b Vittoria Peyote tires running tubeless with Stans and the only thing I would have changed about the set-up was a suspension fork with lockout for when the roads were smoother or when we rode some paved sections. I wish I had the fork for the washboard and steep fast downhills with large rock “gravel.” Having bars that you can hold on to and a front wheel that tracks well and stays on the ground, like cyclocommute was saying, would have been nice. I love mountain biking too, so was very aware of the difference the fork would have made. My best friend who is just into commuting and touring seemed to think drop bars and no suspension was just fine, but he doesn’t know any better and was going slow. I was going faster than him(still not fast) and felt like the lack of suspension made things a lot more sketchy and we were clearly much slower than we would have been with suspension. It’s hard to go very fast down a steep chunky gravel road with lots of random almost fist sized rocks, on a ridged bike with drop bars, big tires or not.
11-06-18, 10:59 PM
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I'm going to be difficult The first item on your list is the best. All the others are bandaids in diminishing effectiveness, although I'd move tire diameter to the last on the list and maybe add front suspension after full suspension.
Your legs and arms are going to provide the most suspension but a suspension fork will keep the bike straighter through washboards than a rigid bike. Rigid bikes get thrown around a lot on wash board and the front tends to wash out easily. That means the bike is harder to handle and a lot less comfortable.
My choice for off-road, as well as mixed off-/on-road, touring is a Moots YBBeat.
The front shock offers great control and the rear suspension moves just enough to take the edge off and to allow for greater control on washboards. On washboards like this (and worse)
I was able to do 20+mph without issue. On pavement, the rear moves a little but the travel is short (1.5") so it's not that difficult to get used to.
The first item on your list is the best. All the others are bandaids in diminishing effectiveness, although I'd move tire diameter to the last on the list and maybe add front suspension after full suspension.Your legs and arms are going to provide the most suspension but a suspension fork will keep the bike straighter through washboards than a rigid bike. Rigid bikes get thrown around a lot on wash board and the front tends to wash out easily. That means the bike is harder to handle and a lot less comfortable.
My choice for off-road, as well as mixed off-/on-road, touring is a Moots YBBeat.
The front shock offers great control and the rear suspension moves just enough to take the edge off and to allow for greater control on washboards. On washboards like this (and worse)
I was able to do 20+mph without issue. On pavement, the rear moves a little but the travel is short (1.5") so it's not that difficult to get used to.
11-06-18, 11:18 PM
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Steel frame, 29x2.2", hardtail, 100 mm front suspension. Main triangle was tiny, to the point I ran a rack and panniers on the back.
After that, I decided if I did any more bikepacking, I wanted a new bike that would handle washboard better and had a big honkin' main triangle for better packing. The frustrating thing is nearly EVERY mountain bike frame has a top tube that slopes down more than I'd like (horizontal or very close to it).
What I'm looking for (I think):
27.5" x ~2.7" wheels
Front suspension
Big-ass main triangle
Thru-axles
1x drivetrain
Mechanical disc brakes (preferably Avid BB7)
Under $2,000
120 km/day isn't crazy if, like me, you get bored easy. What am I supposed to do at quitting time, set up a tent and just sit in it? Might as well go for a bike ride. My daily average was brought down towards the end in Montana, when there were WarmShowers hosts 70 km apart and a reason to stop (showers! beds! laundry!). Until then, I was averaging about 140 km/day.
I'm not fast, but I've wondered how competitive I might be in these self-supported races (Great Divide, Trans-Am) if I raced in them with a large budget, but that's not happening.
After that, I decided if I did any more bikepacking, I wanted a new bike that would handle washboard better and had a big honkin' main triangle for better packing. The frustrating thing is nearly EVERY mountain bike frame has a top tube that slopes down more than I'd like (horizontal or very close to it).
What I'm looking for (I think):
27.5" x ~2.7" wheels
Front suspension
Big-ass main triangle
Thru-axles
1x drivetrain
Mechanical disc brakes (preferably Avid BB7)
Under $2,000
120 km/day isn't crazy if, like me, you get bored easy. What am I supposed to do at quitting time, set up a tent and just sit in it? Might as well go for a bike ride. My daily average was brought down towards the end in Montana, when there were WarmShowers hosts 70 km apart and a reason to stop (showers! beds! laundry!). Until then, I was averaging about 140 km/day.
I'm not fast, but I've wondered how competitive I might be in these self-supported races (Great Divide, Trans-Am) if I raced in them with a large budget, but that's not happening.
Last edited by BlarneyHammer; 11-07-18 at 09:35 AM.
11-07-18, 06:15 AM
#18
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My Surly ECR is fabulous on the many dirt roads here in NH. The big Chupacabras suck up the bumps pretty good. This bike is easier to ride on washboard than smooth pavement.
11-07-18, 11:17 AM
#20
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11-07-18, 01:27 PM
#21
Senior Member
Steel frame, 29x2.2", hardtail, 100 mm front suspension. Main triangle was tiny, to the point I ran a rack and panniers on the back.
After that, I decided if I did any more bikepacking, I wanted a new bike that would handle washboard better and had a big honkin' main triangle for better packing. The frustrating thing is nearly EVERY mountain bike frame has a top tube that slopes down more than I'd like (horizontal or very close to it).
What I'm looking for (I think):
27.5" x ~2.7" wheels
Front suspension
Big-ass main triangle
Thru-axles
1x drivetrain
Mechanical disc brakes (preferably Avid BB7)
Under $2,000
120 km/day isn't crazy if, like me, you get bored easy. What am I supposed to do at quitting time, set up a tent and just sit in it? Might as well go for a bike ride. My daily average was brought down towards the end in Montana, when there were WarmShowers hosts 70 km apart and a reason to stop (showers! beds! laundry!). Until then, I was averaging about 140 km/day.
I'm not fast, but I've wondered how competitive I might be in these self-supported races (Great Divide, Trans-Am) if I raced in them with a large budget, but that's not happening.
After that, I decided if I did any more bikepacking, I wanted a new bike that would handle washboard better and had a big honkin' main triangle for better packing. The frustrating thing is nearly EVERY mountain bike frame has a top tube that slopes down more than I'd like (horizontal or very close to it).
What I'm looking for (I think):
27.5" x ~2.7" wheels
Front suspension
Big-ass main triangle
Thru-axles
1x drivetrain
Mechanical disc brakes (preferably Avid BB7)
Under $2,000
120 km/day isn't crazy if, like me, you get bored easy. What am I supposed to do at quitting time, set up a tent and just sit in it? Might as well go for a bike ride. My daily average was brought down towards the end in Montana, when there were WarmShowers hosts 70 km apart and a reason to stop (showers! beds! laundry!). Until then, I was averaging about 140 km/day.
I'm not fast, but I've wondered how competitive I might be in these self-supported races (Great Divide, Trans-Am) if I raced in them with a large budget, but that's not happening.
So basically it looks like you just need a diff frame, as you have all the other stuff sorted and you know it works for you.
How about an Ogre frame?
oh, btw, what size is your present frame in that photo? My wifes Troll has the same extremely slanted top tube, with very little space in between, but its a XS frame.
I looked at Ogre frames and they seem to have at least twice the inbetween frame space compared to your bike.
I'm not sure though about front suspension on them, I know the older Trolls were setup for suspension, but that changed after 2017, partly cuz they figured not many people went suspension, and as a bonus, the larger headpart gave a larger inner frame area for better frame bag use.
good luck finding a suitable replacement, Im sure there are possibilities within reason and having to balance what aspects of a given frame are more important to you vs their limitations.
I figure the more challenging thing will be the summer in Baja thing, cant work around the weather.
Ive been tempted to look into a Baja trip, have heard lots of good things about the place.
11-07-18, 03:08 PM
#22
Senior Member
On your divide bike, maybe that’s just a really weirdly designed frame, but it looks way too small for you. That would explain why you have no triangle and the longest seatpost ever. My 5’2” friend has a slightly larger frame triangle in a size small bike. That thing might be an extra small? Maybe look at hardtail MTB frames? If you found an older one, it’ll be designed for a short travel fork and have a larger main triangle compared to a lot of modern suspension bikes.
11-07-18, 04:19 PM
#23
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I should've been a little clearer: by "typical" hardtail, I meant one with front suspension, in the neighborhood of 120 mm. If the idea is to stay off-road 90% of the time, I figure it's worth it to get a mountain bike with front suspension. Otherwise, might as well put the biggest possible tires on my road touring bike (probably about 700x45) and roll with that. Also, I want at least the ability to hit some more rugged singletrack if I fancy.
The main hang-ups I have about rear suspension are:
1. When it comes to touring/bikepacking, simpler is usually better
2. Severely hampers your ability to pack well by taking away most of the space in the main triangle. The ones you posted certainly intrigue me, since they don't have this problem.
And I guess I wonder if it's overkill for what I'll usually be doing.
1. When it comes to touring/bikepacking, simpler is usually better
2. Severely hampers your ability to pack well by taking away most of the space in the main triangle. The ones you posted certainly intrigue me, since they don't have this problem.
And I guess I wonder if it's overkill for what I'll usually be doing.
As for the main triangle, I agree that both of these have good triangles. That’s part of the reasons that I have them. The YBB was at one point thought of as the best bike for the Great Divide. I still consider it to be an excellent bike for bikepacking.
Only you can say whether a bike is overkill for the purpose. My bikes push me towards more rugged bikepacking than just gravel roads. That’s the reason I picked them. They work for the job quite well.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
11-07-18, 04:36 PM
#24
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,381
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
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2,373 Posts
Ybb = why be beat.
LEGENDARY-The YBB soft-tail is just enough to take the edge off small hits and not over complicate your life
Take a look at the modern geometry on this expensive bike,
Mountaineer YBB - Moots
lasts a life time.
comes with a lifetime warranty for orignal owner.
You did not mention if you have $5,000 for a bike.
I have looked but never found a used ybb in good shape for sale.
The rear suspension is just over 1 inch of travel.
For $380 the FLX-FR-701 ( 29er boost )
Free Shipping To Worldwide
comes with a one year warranty, you pay shipping back to China.
from flyxii carbon, China Direct,
FLX-FR-701 ( 29er boost )
If you need to buy a new frame in 2 years, well, so.
I figure YBB is the best bike out there, Not enough money. Get the modern geometry!
LEGENDARY-The YBB soft-tail is just enough to take the edge off small hits and not over complicate your life
Take a look at the modern geometry on this expensive bike,
Mountaineer YBB - Moots
lasts a life time.
comes with a lifetime warranty for orignal owner.
You did not mention if you have $5,000 for a bike.
I have looked but never found a used ybb in good shape for sale.
The rear suspension is just over 1 inch of travel.
For $380 the FLX-FR-701 ( 29er boost )
Free Shipping To Worldwide
comes with a one year warranty, you pay shipping back to China.
from flyxii carbon, China Direct,
FLX-FR-701 ( 29er boost )
If you need to buy a new frame in 2 years, well, so.
I figure YBB is the best bike out there, Not enough money. Get the modern geometry!
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
11-07-18, 05:04 PM
#25
Senior Member
Nothing to add. I just want to comment that I LOVE the term "washboard!" I've been looking for a word to describe the kind of surface that makes my teeth chatter and this one is perfect!