Sanulaw

RAAM kicked off this weekend. What do you think is the toughest road cycling endurance event: RAAM or Tour de France (or any other road cycling event you may know about).

Taking nothing away from the pro peloton, I think RAAM is tougher; longer distance, less rest time etc.

Any thoughts?

rck

I remember a friend talking of an interview he saw with Lon Haldiman interviewed by Davis(?) Phinney. One of the questions Phinney asked Haldiman was when he was going to do some "real" racing!

Indolent58

Apples to Oranges. If you put Jure Robic in the TdF he would fail miserably - he's way too slow. No telling how a top TdF rider would do in RAAM, because generally speaking they are not crazy .

Bacciagalupe

They're totally different types of events, so it's really hard to say.

RAAM is much more about non-stop endurance and sleep loss/deprivation. Tactically it's much simpler -- the main concerns are staying consistent, getting enough calories, staying awake, minimizing discomfort and so forth.

GC candidates in the Grand Tours need a wider variety of skills (notably time trials and strong climbs), day-after-day endurance for a much longer period, and have to work well with not only their own teammates but other teams as well.

Pro cyclists are also the creme de la creme and have no other profession than competitive cycling, whereas the majority of RAAM riders are essentially amateurs. In turn, I suspect the RAAM riders probably don't have the same level of support as the pros.

pegleg

As far as I know Jonathan Boyer is the only person to finish both races. He rode and won RAAM on a bet after trash talking it. He believes TdF is harder, but now fully respects RAAM.

LWaB

Boyer was a fair pro (12th in '83 Tour de France) and a winning RAAMer (1985 and 2006 - Solo Enduro). Any Grand Tour winner would win RAAM, if they avoided significant injuries.

Marinman

What kind of bikes are they riding in the RAAM?

mattm

how about le tour ultime? that's the "TdF in one stage."

i wonder how the pros would do without a peloton to draft off of - that is one huge difference in these events (i assume).

LWaB

The fastest time trial riders in the world are pros.

Bacciagalupe

Did they drop the "Solo Enduro" category, by the way?

TBatty

Is there any media or web coverage of RAAM? I would like to track the progress.

mattm

raam blog: https://www.raceacrossamerica.org/sub...3aba7ec4ef1a1c

they used to have an animated map of the race in more-or-less real time, anyone know what happened to that or have the link? seems like they updated the site recently.

edit: found the live link: https://stats.raceacrossamerica.org/2.../overview.html

surprise, surprise, robic is in the lead!

cbass

RAAM riders probably have a lower overall level of crew support than the pros in the TdF. In my eyes that makes RAAM the tougher event.

I've crewed RAAM twice (in 2004 and 2005) and I've seen some riders complete the race on a shoestring budget. RAAM riders have to be a tough breed, both mentally and physically. Randy Van Zee finished in 2004 with a cracked pelvis. That same year Andy Otto had to be helped on and off his bike and there were still over 750 miles left in the race. He finished.

Other tough road races: Furnace Creek 508, BMB and PBP.

bmike

BMB and PBP are not races... they are tough rides, and BMB (when it was alive) was a RAAM qualifier.

merlin55

Last year I was on a Sunday training ride near Oceanside, and we wound up riding some of the first 50 miles of the RAAM course, about 15 minutes in front of the lead rider, until we turned around and then all of the solo riders passed us. The first 3 riders look good, the next 5 OK, many of the rest didn't look like they would not make more than 200 miles...if they were lucky. Some of the bikes and riders....you just wondered what they were thinking...

prestonjb

I think that if RAAM was still a race and we were back in the heyday of when PBP was still a race... And those riders came over to do RAAM then I think jorbic and all those riding today would be really suffering.

Is one tougher than the other. Perspective. If you took the pros from TDF and gave them an incentive ($$) and time to train... they would set some really astounding rides on RAAM.

I think RAAM still gives the appearance of being tougher simply because there is not enough money to draw the serious riders.

Several points about the differences in the two also indicate that it is hard to measure which race is actually harder. If we say we are seeking only winning ranks (overall solo RAAM vs Yellow Jersey) then say that the caliber of riders (and numbers and money and such) were to be equal...

Then to actually be a winner... I'd think the guy who won TDF would probably have a tougher go of it than the guy who won RAAM. And probably for the comments made about tactics and timetrials and such... RAAM is more steady riding and who can do that the best is probably going to win. Where the guys in TDF have more "battles for the lead" which appear to be more physically demanding (if cannt sustain then dropped and lost lots of time...


(NOTE: PBP was a race from 189xish to around 1951... It died because the money left for the single day racing format. TDF survived because it changed from the old PBP/RAAM format... Reason: because cities could be the endpoint and draw lots of people staying there and buying from the locals... Not because it was easier on the riders)

Badpenny

The pros would smoke everyone in RAAM.

LWaB

Looks like it wasn't hardcore enough, though that doesn't explain the proliferation of team and 24 hr categories.

medicmike

Saw an article qouting Outside magazine as ranking the RAAM as the toughest endurance contest in the world. There is a time station in the town I live in and I look forward to cheering the racers on.

LWaB

I thought RAAM was a race.

First PBP was 1891, last one in '51. The reason PBP was every 10 years in the early years was because the racers complained that training for PBP slowed them down too much to win shorter races.

First TdF was 1903, the first stage race in the world. TdF has always been a commercial enterprise, originally designed to sell newspapers. The publicity caravan began in 1930. Stage towns have paid the TdF to become starts/finishes for decades.

pegleg

Except any Grand Tour winner rides a high percentage of the race protected by his team, and gets a decent nights sleep every night.

That was Boyer's attitude and he was (and freely admits it) wrong.

I have seen many an always win gifted athlete turn into a huge puddle of useless when faced with extreme sleep deprivation. I believe the average Pro Tour rider would have better luck transitioning to ultra events than RAAM riders to the Pro Tour. But being able to win or finish a Grand Tour doesn't mean winning or finishing RAAM would be guaranteed

donrhummy

The cycling is the TDF (and Giro) is MUCH harder given the mountains they have to ride over. However, the actual "toughness" of the RAAM is probably higher given the lack of sleep (and the fact that the sleep usually occurs on the ground, not in a plush hotel) and the lack of drafting in a peloton.

I think if a TDF rider did the RAAM, their success would depend more on their ability to handle a lack of sleep and manage the poor living/sleep conditions for a week+. But if they could do that, they could be successful in the RAAM. However, I think there are zero RAAM riders who could be successful in the TDF as the speed and climbing would be too much.

BTW, this is completely random but WTF is with Boyer molesting an 11 year old?! And why did he only have to serve 1 year in prison?! How is that fair?

LWaB

OT but it would relate to what the judge, knowing all of the available facts and circumstances, thought was the appropriate punishment. Given that any appeal, if one occurred, didn't change the punishment suggests it was reasonable. Without all of the facts, none of us on this board can meaningfully comment.

slvoid

RAAM is like this sick twisted contest to see who can keep pedal the longest with the fewest amount of sleep.

It's like, if you stuck a bunch of people on trainers and made them pedal for days on end while throwing water, heat, and bird **** in their faces and the last one to pass out wins.

ken cummings

Mike Secrest and Jock Boyer were swapping the lead until the mountains in Virginia, a day or two from the finish. Boyer was even heard to say, "When is that @%^#^ going to rest?" The dense fog/clouds in the Virginia mountains at night got to Secrest, slowing him, giving Boyer too big a gap to close, and the win. I heard that Boyer was one of the first, if not the first, contestant(s) to try liquid foods. He also was reported to have stayed in motels wherever possible instead of in an RV on the road side. The next year the winner, Pete Penseyers, who has won a National title in veterans racing, was chasing the ghost of Boyer, motivated by Boyers' comments. He still holds the RAAM solo speed record. If the two had raced against each other That would have been a race to remember.

Folks, as others have said, we are comparing Apples and Oranges here.