AndrewJB

CliffordK

So, if I'm reading it right:

Same:Different/Downgraded:It still looks like a pretty sweet bike.

I don't think you would have paid much attention if they had gotten their specs right to start with.

I like how they list it:So, swapping the wheels, they should be able to toss in at least $388

I can't say what I'd do. If you want the Di2, then stick with the Motobecane. The Fuji looks like it has a nice frame, but with a significant downgrade on components.

Point out their listed downgrade on the wheels, and ask if they'll just give you the same $700 discount they were offering on the Fuji, and apply it to the Motobecane instead.

Looking at the wheels: Of course the true retail price is much less than what BD lists:
https://www.merlincycles.com/dt-swis...ls-108391.html
https://www.merlincycles.com/dt-swis...ls-108397.html

$458 vs $250 (or so). Or just over $200 difference in price.

If you could get them to budge by that $458, then you could buy the dicut wheels... or get a different set of wheels. Cheap CF?

Paul Barnard

Try to negotiate what you think is fair for you. If that doesn't work, get your money back. I must say that I am impressed with BD for doing a good job in offering you a number of options. I think Fuji makes great bikes. I wouldn't hesitate to own the brand. That said, I hate the name "Oval Concepts" house label. Especially on things that should be round like wheels and cranksets. Is anything on a bike oval? What an unimaginative misnomer.

AndrewJB

Thanks Clifford/Paul,
Good comments. I have recently started riding at a popular stretch of road that is a bit like a TT course (Columns Drive for the Atlanta folks here), 5 mile loop (2.5 out, 2.5 back), flat straight residential road, even has good wide bike lanes, minimal traffic, you can just crank it out for as long and as fast as you can. I had been doing mostly neighborhood loops and hilly routes, but now i really enjoy mixing it up as they are very different workouts.

After getting the email, and the initial pissed off period has somewhat passed, I am thinking a nice aero bike might be the ticket for the Columns Drive rides. My current Moto Ti is great for the road trips and hilly rides I do, this Moto Di2 would be a similar bike, and as currently spec'd would be no lighter, I need to think about what benefit I am going to realize with the Di2, and if I would be happy with the Fuji component set...at least for a little while...
Decisions, decisions...

johnny99

I applaud the company for offering you a full refund. That is would be my choice, as well as never dealing with them again.

mstateglfr 

$200 for the wheel difference.
probably $270 for the saddle, seatpost, stem, and bars.

no idea on the tire difference.

$470 difference.
comp vs WCS is a big difference on that cockpit in both weight and cost.

I would tell them to F off and get my money back.
...or buy that fuji if you like it. Fuji is a brand owned by the same company that owns nashbar, performance, Breezer, kestrel, and another brand i can't think of.
the parent company has been(and still is, i think) partly owned by a Taiwan manufacturer. In say all this because there is no reason to worry in general quality based on the fuji name.
if the fuji geometry fits and you like the specs for the cost, get it then tell BD to F off.

Kedosto

CliffordK

You might look at a full Tri/TT bike. Aero frame, TT bars, deep CF wheels, etc.

In which case, perhaps none of the above for BD bikes.

Personally, I'm a fan of used bikes, and there are sometimes some great deals to be had on used TT bikes.

GeneO 

Myself I would go with the refund and look elsewhere.

veganbikes

I wouldn't have done business with them in the first place but since you have I would just get your money back and go to your local shop where you can test ride bikes and find one that works for you and get all the warranties and such and a complete built bike with no extra cost for building it. Di2 is awesome though and I wouldn't want to go back (granted I still have plenty of bikes that are mechanical and love those)

AndrewJB

Ok, first off, thanks to everyone for offering their input. it was very helpful.
I slept on it an decided to go with Fuji Transonic offer.
Didn't feel right to get the Moto Di2 with the downgrades, it would always be on my mind...for awhile at least But also, other than the Di2 it was very much like the Moto Ti (mech Ultegra) I have. OK, it was CF, but you get the point. The Transonic offers a different bike option for heading out for different types of riding adventures.
I'll report back when I get it.

Cheers,
Andrew

WizardOfBoz

Yeah, I agree. By insisting you prepay, they've held up your purchasing any other good deal.

That said, if you noted the groupset and saw that the deal you were getting was truly aberrant (like a full Dura Ace bike for less than the cost of a Dura Ace gruppo), you may have some culpability. If it sounds too good to be true, and you know it was too good to be true, then I'd just cancel.

But if the deal was good, but reasonable, you could press your luck and see what happens. I'm not lawyer, but I do seem to recall from my contract law course that if you come to an agreement, and fulfill your end of the bargain, and the other party offers a material change, you have three options
1) Cancel everything,
2) Negotiate, or
3) Insist upon performance of the contract.

They offered the bike, you agreed to the listed specs and price and payed them. They owe you the bike that you signed up for. But getting them to perform might be tough. You might try a letter like:

"Thanks for your note. You are a commercial concern whose main (only?) business is to sell bikes. You offered, on your website, a bike with the specs and equipment listed below, at the price of $X. I placed reliance on your competence in listing specs, and in your business ethics in fulfilling the agreement you offered. I entered into a contract to buy the bike listed, and paid you $X.

You are proposing to send me a significantly different bike. This is unacceptable and puts you in breach of our contract. You are offering me a bike with parts that are worth $600 less than the parts listed in your offering that I accepted and paid for, and are offering me $100 in compensation. This is unacceptable.

Since paying you, many different bikes from other vendors have been on sale, but because I have a contract with Bikes Direct I passed up these deals. I could have had a bike that is on par with the bike you owe me, for about the same price. I placed reliance that you, a commercial bike supplier, would have the equipment correctly listed, and that you would fulfill your contract. Should you fail to ship the bike whose specs YOU listed, you are in breach of contract and are liable to losses I've incurred due to detrimental reliance.

I'm a past customer. I'm publicizing your answer to a wide group of biking enthusiasts. I (and the thousands of other bikers) would like to hear back from you. Will you fulfill your contract, or be in breach?"

With all that said, I'll bet that their terms have weasel words that allow them to renege on their word.

Of course, you can lick your wounds and take their compensation and buy a different bike from them. But I wouldn't patronize a company that already had baited and switched on me.

Or, go to a lawyer, see if this might have class action appeal, and have your lawyer write a letter. If BD did the same thing to several hundred other customers or (especially) if its in the habit of bait and switch, your lawyer might be interested.

But again, if the deal was so screaming that you pretty much knew it was impossible, then you have to weigh your own actions in this. And fighting for the bike may not be worth it to you.

Good luck.

ksryder

"Factory typo" = bait and switch.

I bought a mail order bike once. Once.

5teve

That's exactly what I thought. A typo would be if they put a "t" in "Shimano." This is classic bait and switch-I wouldn't do business with a company that tried to pull such a stunt.

gettingold

Ah, the old "factory typo" grift.

LanghamP

I've bought two bikes from BD, and a few other much more expensive bikes through mail order.

All of them were sketchy but in a good way. All bikes I've ordered has some minor "issue" with the exact components listed versus the components I got.

It's the Chinese way; it's better to build and sell something right now with whatever components you have on hand rather than wait for that perfectly specified build. I find it charming in its way, and you can often get unexpectedly good deals after a bit of back and forth.

There's a tendency for consumers in the USA to hysterics. "They made me a counteroffer so now I'm going to completely cancel, knock out all their teeth, and recommend everyone to boycott them."

Don't be this guy. You know the type; the guy who you avoid inviting to parties because he blows up over minor things.

WizardOfBoz

A very interesting point of view. Thanks, LanghamP, for a breath of fresh air.

jefnvk

Kinda makes you wonder why BD lists in such detail some of their components. If I look at even more expensive Treks and Specialized, things like stems and seatposts and bars are often generic "Bontrager" or "Specialized" such with no other details beyond simple basics available.

In any case, you picked what I likely would have done.

jack002

If I ordered a bike and got one with a different component than listed, I hardly think that I would call that event charming.

ksryder

Right? It's not like BD is some new kid on the block, they've been at this a long time. Whereas I'd give a smaller company more benefit of the doubt, I'm more skeptical about BD especially given their mildly-misleading price listing practices. (This bike retails for eleventy billion dollars but we'll sell it to you for a LIMITED TIME for 2 grand).

I don't think expecting a company to uphold its side of the bargain is overreacting -- it's the fundamental underlying principle of contracts (offer + acceptance + consideration). At no point did the OP describe hysterics, merely asked for opinions on which of 4 choices he should choose.

CliffordK

BD can blame it on the factory, but it is their trademark, I think, and their factory contracts. If it is the fault of the factory, then they need to send someone over there for QA/QC.

Perhaps a purchasing agent made the substitution without confirming with BD? But, assuming a volume of thousands of bikes, it isn't easy to go off spec on a half a dozen different parts.

Perhaps a miscommunication with posting the pre-order too soon, and the actual build specs.

I think I've seen specs on some of the cheaper BD bikes indicating a possibility of parts substitutions, or multiple parts in the specs, with no choice on what gets delivered. Nonetheless, they can do better on their $2K+ bikes.

hockey

Agree. I have purchased 3 BD bikes and all were as advertised. No issues, no. complaints. I wish other online companies were as reliable.

prj71

In summary...Grab the vasoline and bend over.

sfh

No, Not exactly. There's really no reason to turn that into a BD bash session.

There's a counter-offer that the customer is completely entitled to decline.

This situation really does sound like the way many Chinese companies do business. They get an order with specifications. They assemble whatever parts they have on hand.. They deal with the problem after delivery. It is to BD's credit (or someone at BD) that they know this and take care of it BEFORE they ship to the end customer. As is said so many times around here, you can get a good deal at BD. You just need to be prepared for things like these. BD certainly knows that people buying bikes in this price range will demand refunds if they get a bike that doesn't meet the advertised specs.

himespau 

I agree with this thought. I'd feel like I got shorted every time I got on the bike..