deacon mark

I wondered if anyone has one of these disk braked Lynskey bikes? I would like to know how it rides and if any flex in the frame. My Haberano has non at all they I can detect but just reading a thread and someone says they have an R330 and they don't like the flex.

texbiker

I ride a Lynskey R300. I received it earlier this year and rode over 2,200 miles so far. It rides firmly and I have not noticed any frame flex. I also ride a Canyon Endurace with 19,000 miles. There are similarities and differences. When I ride over a bump each absorbs it but feels different. The Lynskey has bigger tires with lower pressure.

impolexg

I think you should call lynskey and see what they say. They make all sorts of bikes and have a lot of experience.

Also I just posted frame tube diameter measurements on that other thread. I'm curious to know what the tube diameters are on your habanero - especially the seat stay diameter.

1Lieutenant

I have a Lynskey R300 with approximately 2000 miles on it. Let me preface by saying I am 67 years old and weigh 145 lb. I strength train 3 times per week and have for the last 40 years. I think a description of the characteristics of a bike requires an understanding of the rider giving that description. A rigid bike for me could be a noodle for a stronger rider.

i find this bike rigid but compliant. The frame absorbs road irregularities and vibration making for a smooth comfortable ride. When I push hard accelerating on the flat or climbing a hill (I enjoy charging up a hill after reading Selene Yeager’s book Climb!) the bike is immediately responsive. My energy goes towards moving the bike and I notice no flex.

Sy Reene

How do you know what the internal tube diameter is (ie. wall thickness)? just curious

impolexg

Well, I'd think that OD would totally dominate because its ^4... That is a pretty big power. But ok I'll see what I can calculate...

Ok, I ran some numbers with google sheets. I calculated tubes with thickness of 1mm, 0.85mm and 0.7mm. I stopped at 0.7 because titanium thinner than becomes fragile like a beer can.

Since I have specific bikes and differences in mind I calculated moi for a 44mm od (downtube), then my raijin's 19mm seat stay and the r330's 15mm seat stay, each with the 3 different tube thicknesses:

Oh. Bummer. I made a nice table as a jpeg but can't share it because I odn't have enough posts. Hmm.

Ok, here is a text version you'll need to suffer through. The big number in the 3rd column is the moi which is linear with stiffness:

OD (mm) Wall thickness (mm) MOI % of 1mm
44, 1, 31239.21195, 0.00%
44, 0.85, 26828.08678, -14.12%
44, 0.7, 22322.10272, -28.54%

OD (mm) Wall thickness (mm) MOI % of 1mm
19, 1, 2297.289628, 0.00%
19, 0.85, 2000.13894, -12.93%
19, 0.7, 1687.120785, -26.56%

OD (mm) Wall thickness (mm) MOI % of 1mm
15, 1, 1083.064067, 0.00%
15, 0.85, 949.1010539, -12.37%
15, 0.7, 805.7595322, -25.60%

Numbers show that you get less than 30% difference between 1mm and 0.7mm wall thickness. A change in tubing OD from 15mm to 19mm is much more significant.

So it looks like indeed OD is totally sufficient for an eyeball of tubing stiffness. Sure you might be able to use crazy thin or crazy thick to change the numbers, but I don't think you can make up a significant difference in tubing OD with wall thickness.

I've got no clue how tubes interact to make a frame feel a certain way, no bias about materials. For frame feel you need to right it, or ask people that do this for a living for advice. Don't listen to me!

DangerousDanR

I have a Lynskey R350 rim brake frame. I have a Bontrager carbon fork and Rolf Echelon wheels on the bike. Mine is a size XL, so that may make a difference.

I have never felt anything that I associated with frame flex, like shifting when pedaling hard or brake rub. It does not bob or weave when cornering hard. I have probably about 4K miles on it, and not any issues. The roads here are primarily flat, but I do make a habit of riding a multi story parking ramp which is about half a kilometre in length

I am about 105 Kilograms, so well into the Clydesdale range. The last time I was in a gym was about 5 years ago, and I could limit out the leg press machines at around 350 kilograms force, so I think I can still put quite a bit of force into the cranks.

deacon mark

This is good to know and my 76 kilograms and legs could under no circumstance produce the power yours do.

impolexg

Dan you sound like the poster child for people that would be sensitive to a flexy frame. Your larger frame will be even more susceptible to flex.

The reviews and advertisements I found for the R350 seem to advertise it as a stiffer more responsive and better climbing frame, but no details as to how exactly they achieved that. Would be nice to understand the physical difference. I'm wondering if you could share the tubing diameters of your R350 frame? Would be interesting to see what is different from my R330. Can't seem to find that info anywhere. Great to give diameter if you own a caliper, but circumference would be fine too.

MoAlpha

I've got an Urbano, which looks like a very similar frame, but with a heavier, gravel-style, fork and maybe a little fatter top tube. I am aware of no flex at all, but I am a 142 lb. weakling.

deacon mark

My Habanero has no flex at all. I cannot in anyway overpower of push the frame. This bike also has a beautiful ride it just rolls smooth and takes lumps and bumps fine. It is a bike that I feel the best on a decent. A bike that hugs and take a sharp decent with stability tells me that it is working as a one............with all the parts if that makes sense.

DangerousDanR

I found this chart on line:



My guess is that my R350 is a little bit stiffer than the newer R300. The 350 is made from 6AL/4V while the 300 is made from 3AL/2V. If I were buying a frame today I would go with the Helix to get the 61 cm top tube (I have ridden them since 1981) and to get the 6AL/4V material. But most people are not forced to lug around my 105 kg, and for those folks, the R300 might be just fine.

impolexg

Hi Dan,

You have listed a geometry chart which is the length and angles of the tubes.

If you have time I am eager to obtain the tube diameters. I haven't found anything online so appears the only way to find that is to find someone (aka: you) that owns the frame to actually measure the diameter. Again if you don't own calipers a circumference measure using a piece of string would work great too. (Diameter is circumference / pi.)

Thanks!

DangerousDanR

For my R350 size XL my measurements are as follows:

Top Tube: diamond shaped 34.5 mm
Down Tube: diamond shaped 41 mm
Seat tube: round 36.5 mm
ST Thickness at top: 4.3 mm
Chain Stay: oval 19 mm X 25 mm
Seat Stay: Upper 17 mm
Seat Stay: Lower 16 mm.

These are approximate measurements taken with a so so digital caliper, but they are within 1 mm of correct.

I believe that the R300 uses a different alloy so it will be different. My frame may be more like the Helix Pro or the R500. I also have a couple of Lynskey Hard Tail mountain bikes, and they are also solid performers. I bought my first Lynskey for a winter commuter after a steel circa 1980 Ritchey, which I had powder coated, started to bubble and rust from the stuff they put on the roads here when it is above zero and it snows. That Lynskey bike has seen many years of hard use with not a single frame related issue.

impolexg

Thank you for taking the time to measure. From those diameters I'd be very surprised if your r350 frame was not lots stiffer than my r330.

I added your measurements to my data from the other thread - each reading is now a quad of: cannondale sr1000, kona raijin, r330, r350.

tube diameter in mm: <sr1000, raijin, r330, r350>
Top Tube: 35, 35, 33, 34.5
Seat tube: 32, 36, 35, 36.5
downtube: 45, 44, 44, 41
seatstay: 19x26,19, 15, 16-17
chainstay: 25.5, 19, 20.5, 19x25

Your r350 has significantly larger seatstay and chainstay, than my r330 and that is significant.

I ran numbers for moi and find that each mm increase in diameter from 15, 16, 17 gives about a 22% increase in stiffness.

Comparing seat stay if a 0.9mm thick 15mm diameter tube has moi of 1000 then 16mm is 1220 and 17mm is 1480. Just eyeballing it looks like my frame's stiffness is held back by those tiny 15mm seatstays.

The 25mm height on your chainstays will be almost double the stiffness of my r330's 20.5mm chainstays (4700 compared to 2500), but I'm not sure how that will impact the frame stiffness wrt side loads.

The modulus of elasticity of Ti alloys doesnt' change much and it can't change stiffness by more than 10%, tubing wall thickness can cause a difference of 25% but you can see that diameter dominates. I believe the point of 6/4 is that it is stronger so you can make the tubing thinner for the same stiffness, so is potentially lighter or tougher, the stiffness is a myth.

Anyway, I'd guess if someone were wanting to estimate the stiffness of a frame they are considering they should ask the manufacturer, and if in doubt check those tube diameters.

DangerousDanR

Impolexg:
I found some pictures of the R330 and the one thing that stands out between the R330 and the R350 is the steering head. The 330 looks to be a straight 1 1/8th inch steering head, while the 350 uses a 1 1/2 to 1 1/8 inch tapered steering head. That could make a difference.

Also, mine has a threaded BB with a Campagnolo crank set which is a fairly stiff crank set, so no flex added there. I do have an FSA carbon seat post which should have some flex, but over all, the bike is not even close to as flexible as the 1980 Peugeot CFX-10 I was riding before I got the Lynskey.

My normal noon time ride is 20-25 miles and I often get out for another 15-25 mile ride in the evening with my wife on our tandem. I run between 150 and 200 miles per week on a road bike, so I guess the R350 is not a torture device.

impolexg

Your bike has a lovely tapered head tube. It certainly looks cool. Not sure how important that is for flex but I've heard some mtb makers claim that the larger base makes for a better joint for downtube. I don't know the purpose. On mtb the tapered fork steer tube helps with stiffness but those loads don't occur on road bikes. My kona raijin has a straight 44mm headtube and tapered steer fork, on the other hand my very stiff cannondale has a 1" threaded fork steer and classic small headtube

As for cranks... I don't think thats responsible for the difference. My very stiff cannondale has the old style square tapered bb and DA7400 cranks.

The flex I see in my R330 is clear to be seen when I press on the pedal: my frame can be flexed to nearly contact the rear tire. My cannondale has less room for the tire near the bottom bracket but the frame can be moved much less than a mm.

All these frame components all interact with each other. I don't think I can reliably tell what is causing my perception of flex. What we really need is a free bicycle fea program, then tune it by comparing with measured loads.

Anyone with an R300 willing to provide frame tube diameters? That would tell us more I think than "it feels fine." Being a gravel bike Lynskey might have tuned in more comfort over stiffness.