ehcoplex 

I’ve got a set of wheels with Maillard 700 hi-flange hubs I’d really like to use. The front hub is complete, however the rear is missing it’s axle/cones/nuts and one of the black plastic dust caps. I’ve got a friend with a 3D printer who can make me a dust cap based on the one I have. Axle & nuts are no problem, but the cones…… From what I can gather, there is often some wiggle room with cone shape/radius, but having messed around with trying to resuscitate some Normandy Luxe Comp hubs with their super shallow radius cones (the cones were badly pitted and I gave up on trying to get alternatives to work), and lacking the originals for the 700s to reference I’m wondering if I’ll have the same problem. Did Maillard 700 cones have an unusual radius? I want to use these wheels on a ‘townie’ build I’m doing with a basket-case PX-10, so it’s not likely to see thousands and thousands of miles. But still, I’d like the hubs to work…

WGB 

interested in this as well

Mad Honk 

I'm going to climb out on a limb with a chain saw, and say I doubt that the manufacturer was changed for the cones, axles and nuts throughout the product line were different from year to year. And if that is the case a Helicomatic hub can likely be scavenged for replacement parts. Too bad I didn't know this before I sent out your BOC, or I could have fit a hub in there for you. I can send you one if you want to try the parts in your hub, and if so you can report back to all if the parts interchange. Smiles, MH

ehcoplex 

Much appreciated, but... I'm 87% sure I read somewhere in my searchings that the bearing size differs between the Helicomatic version and the 'regular' one, which makes me think the cones might also be different? I was being lazy and trying to avoid it, but I've got a Campy rear hub here I can pull apart and test-fit it's axle & cones in the 700 and see how it feels... Come to think of it, I might have a wheel with a Shimano hub I could try the same thing with.... I'll report back.

dmark 

I believe Helicomatic used smaller balls so no

Dave Mayer

My experience with vintage French hubs is bad, in that the cones are made of soft material and pit a lot faster than Campy hubs, even the lesser Campy hubs such as Tipo and Victory/Triomphe.

Check your hub for the size and number of balls. Campy hubs in the freewheel era mostly took 10 x 3/16" balls in the front, and 9 x 1/4" balls in the back. Ditto with Shimano and Suntour. If your hubs follow the same spec, then there is a strong chance you can retrofit your hubs with a complete axle/cone/ball assembly from one of these manufacturers - a definite upgrade from mid-range French hardware.

juvela

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the actual manufacturer of the hub is Etablissements Perrin et Courson, best known as producers of Pelissier, New Star & Exceltoo marked products



[advert of July 1973, the launch year]

since you have the generation with the black plastic dustcaps that makes it the G1/early version

there is also a G2/late edition

do not know if cones the same for both; my experience limited to the G1

two places where would expect discussion of these hubs to have taken place is the GitaneUSA forum and the CR list

forum member verktyg has made very detailed posts concerning cones for the various generations of the Luxe Competition hub but have not seen him to write on the 700; he may have done so on the Gitane forum &/or the CR list

one thing to be aware of regarding the design of the 700 is that the bearing cups have larger holes for the axle than do the barrels; the seat for the cups is square is cross section such that when installed the cups have no open space on their back side to knock them out with a drift punch should replacement be required


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ehcoplex 

Alrighty... I pulled apart a Campy small-flange Gran Sport hub and tried the axle/cones/etc in the 700 shell and.. success. Spins smooth, no weirdness, etc. AFAIK, the cones on Campy GS hubs are the same as Record. Now I'm wondering if Campy cones changed much over the years, or if I can just get any Campy rear cones....

dmark 

IF Helicomatic then from Sutherland's at https://archive.org/details/sutherla...with-bookmarks

REAR HUBS – MULTI-SPEED FREEWHEEL
Ball Sizes
- 1/4" balk per side except the following:
ACS Pre-1983 9 - 15/64" balls per side
ACS 1983-current 9 - 1/4" balls per side
Maillard Helicomatic 1 3 - 5/32" balls per side
Schwinn Disc Brake 12 - 3/16" balls per side
Suntour Cassette Hubs 12 - 3/16" balls per side
Suntour XCD 1989 9 - 1/4" balls left side, 12 - 3/16" balk right side

juvela

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slightly surprised to read this

at its initial launch the GS group employed Nuovo Tipo hubs

these have cones which are less precisely rectified than those of Record model hubs and they are not black oxide finished as the Record model ones are; they have a satin silver finish


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ehcoplex 

Ah, you're right- the GS cones are silver. I must have been misremembering having read they were the same as Record. Though I'm assuming (yeah, yeah, I know) they're the same geometry as the Record.....?

Brad L 

I've had to replace cones on Maillard hubs and found it relatively inexpensive to just buy another hub off Ebay. I've been lucky that the replacement hub had good cones, but it's risky.

chain_whipped

Not attempting to derail the thread, but thought to add an observation. Through the years and having Helicomatic early vs later hubs, there's a difference in the bb's sizes. It's been awhile and I don't have the details off hand.

Mad Honk 

Well a bit of scrounging around yields up these front hubs and perhaps a rear cone from an old French hub.

Plenty of front hubs available.

This is from a standard French rear hub that is being scrapped. Cone size is 17.5mm outer diameter, 12.5mm inner race diameter, and 12mm in height.
There are likely some innards from a Tippo hub here in the Way Back archives. Smiles, MH

ehcoplex 

Hmm, I was going to pick up some cones on eBay- someone's got some NOS for $15- but if you've got some Tipos that are good, let me know. I've got an axle and spacers, but could use locknuts, too.

Mad Honk 

ehcoplex ,
Well open up yer wallet and let me rummage around in there!

No spokes were injured or damaged in the making of this sacrifice.

This is the part where your cash is going to start flowing freely in my direction!
Har! Smiles, MH

JohnDThompson 

True, and there was a "700" model helicomatic hub; it uses 13 5/32" balls on each side. The axle thread is also non-standard: 10mm x 0.75mm

dddd

I believe there are other high-end hubs using the .75-pitch threading made by Maillard, not just Helicomatic!

And Roval hubs had that threading too, the hubs being made by Maillard.

I do recall tearing into at least one of Maillard's high-end hubs with the 10x.75 axle, must have been a 700 or perhaps Trophee, but a top model hi-flange hub.

The finer threading makes for a stronger axle and reduces any tendency for threaded parts to loosen.

miamijim

I have a huge stash of Maillard/Normandy NOS axles with cones. Just can’t remember where it is 🙄

ehcoplex 

Well, I cannabalized a Shimano hub in the B-O-C Mad Honk sent me and I think it's going to work. I don't doubt there's probably some slight mismatch with the radius of the cones and the cups, but it feels good and smooth. Now to see if 3D printing the missing dust caps works...

Mad Honk 

You gonna tell me that the Shimano dust cap didn't fit into the Maillard hub shell! What were those guys thinking by not standardizing parts for interchangeable option. Har! MH

noglider 

It depends on the model hub. Maillard 700 hubs had high quality races and cones. The same company made the ubiquitous (at the time) Atom and Normandy Sport. Those cones were crappy.

Campagnolo Nuovo Tip (which means "new type") hubs had good cones but stamped races. But the hubs were pretty durable overall.

Mad Honk 

So it seems my sending copious amounts of "Crap" to ehcoplex has resulted in another lost sale of Campy goodness! Now he needs to step up and show us pictures of his "Hack" for the repair, and give all of the gory details of the transplant. Smiles, MH

Mad Honk 

Well I started cleaning the two front hubs today that were pulled out of the 27" rims. The 700 foil ink washed right off the hubs! Luckily Greg at Cyclomondo makes replacement foils. So I am ordering from Australia to restore the hub. I guess this a PSA to be very careful when cleaning the hubs. Smiles, MH

ehcoplex 

Yeah, same thing happened to me when I cleaned my hubs. I caught it before the label was completely gone, but it ain't as nice and shiny as it once was.....