afan

Hi

Please can you help with some advice? I am looking to purchase a bike that will have the following uses:

1) Club rides
2) Occasional competitive events eg Etape & other sportives
3) Audax
4) Commuting

Having done a bit of research I've decided to go for either a titanium or steel frame and push the boat out to get something really nice for a change.

A) For titanium I was thinking of a US builder like Moots - a Vamoots or Compact. There are lots of top notch titanium bikes out there but I like the finish of the Moots.

B) For steel I was thinking of something using lightweight tubing - either Reynolds 953 or light Columbus tubing like Spirit/Life.

I want a bike that lasts for years and gives both good performance and a good feel. Given my 4 intended uses of the bike above, do you have advice or an opinion on whether the two options A) and B) are good in your view and maybe even which is best?

Many Thanks in Advance

AF

Hocam

Pick the custom builder closest to you, as you'll want to go in for a full fit and talk face to face with the people or person that will build your frame. Most custom builders work in steel, a few Ti, but the quality is excellent across the board so who does the brazing won't matter much (aside from bragging rights).

For those riding requirements you'll need to decide what size tires you want to run, as that will dictate a lot of the geometry. I'd recommend going for the maximum allowed reach on short reach brakes. With short reach calipers you can fit 23's and full fenders if you get braze-ons for them (not sure how that works with a carbon fork though). It's nice to have that option for audax and touring rides, and the other rides will love you if you have mudflaps. Using standard or long reach brakes is nice but severely limits your brake caliper choice, one area where you could shed a lot of weight with short reach weight weenie brakes.

Then pick a color scheme and call your local frame builder. You can make component choices later, as it will take at least 2 months to get the frame done and back from the painters.

stapfam

For 2 -3 and 5 you are looking for something solid- can take a rear pannier and has a certain amount of give in the frame. TI or steel but I ride aluminium and CF. CF would be a problem as No rack mounts on many. Aluminium has not a lot of give in it- But Most come with CF forks and seat posts that take the harshness away from the ride.

In the UK- we are spoilt for choice on the "OLD" manufacturers that are stuck with 10 year technology that will work for your use. Problem is that it they will be heavy compared to a more modern design of frame. One still popular Make for touring and Audax is Dawes. Link below

https://www.dawescycles.com/dawes/touring-bikes.htm

Now what these will be like for the occasional competitive event- I would not like to say- but for Audax and touring-- Thse are one of the bikes to use.

AEO

how about a rocky mountain sherpa?

main issue with trying to go for either touring + competitive features is that the geometries are polar opposites.
touring is better with a longer wheel base, while competitons are better with shorter wheel bases.

Hocam

Yeah but you can get away with a stage race geometry for light touring. You just need to get a big carradice saddlebag and to pack light.

operator

Medium touring and club rides/regular rides are mutually exclusive.

afan

Has anyone got views on titanium (Moots) vs steel (953 or similar)?

Cheers

afan

Thanks for the tip. I will get a tourer seperately as I am clearly getting carried away otherwise. What do you think on the steel v ti question for the remaining uses?

SushiJoe

I've got a Ti [and CF] bike right now and am seriously considering Reynolds 953. Lighter and stronger than 3/2.5 Ti and corrosion resistant, unlike other other steels. Check out Independent Fabrication and Waterford just to name two of many...

afan

Did not realise 953 was lighter than Ti. Do you have a weight comparison for the same frame size / design?

Sirrobinofcoxly

"Dream machine" automatically says Ti to me.

If you are going to go steel, call it a "Reality machine"

afan

Reality as in it is heavy? 953 is lighter than Ti though (I am told).

Assuming I get some extra stiffness built into the Ti frame sounds light I wonder if it offers better value than a lightweight steel such as 953 or Columbus in any other ways?

Sirrobinofcoxly

I wasn't implying anything about weight. Just looking at it from a high-bling perspective.

Bacciagalupe

Since you are getting a separate touring bike anyway, I suggest you consider the following break-down:

1) Fast bike (for competitive events, club rides, some long distance etc)
2) Comfort bike (for touring, commuting, 100+ mile rides)

In general, you want the same features for touring as you will for commuting and 100+ mile rides: e.g. stable geometry, rack, fenders, somewhat upright position, wide tires, comfortable ride, low gears. Some of the bikes in this category are actually pretty affordable, e.g. Salsa Casseroll, Surly LHT or Cross-Check, Bianchi Volpe will be around the $1000 mark.

For the fast stuff, you'll want skinny tires, a more aggressive geometry, maybe more aero wheels. If you're only riding for a few hours, comfort isn't that critical.

patentcad

Steel sucks.

Get Ti.

Next question.

RC2

I just went with a Vamoots for a 'dream build' in a very similar situation. Wanted a racer/weekend rider with great feel, somewhat stable handling, and tons of quality & beauty. I'd think a boutique steel builder (though there is another thread discussing the multi-year waits some of the top builders like Sach and Vanilla have, what about IF?) or Ti would fit the bill. A lot comes down to personal preference.

I don't think you'd be disappointed in the ride btwn something like a Vamoots and the steel choices... so this is probably less of a question of quibling over much-debated ride characterists (which are more a function of the geometry/build than material) or even weight, and more a question of going with your gut.

dekindy

I would get a titanium for touring/commuting and a Cannondale System 6 for fast club riding/occasional centuries.

afan

Hi, why do folks think titanium is not so good for club riding and centuries? Surely it is a) as light or lighter than a steel rig and b) nearly as comfortable? Look forward to hearing your views!!

KidTruth

There is no reason Titanium wouldn't be a good club ride/century bike, it is all a matter of perspective and the allure that Titanium has as a "bling" building material.

If 953 is lighter than Ti, I can't see a single reason to go with Ti other than bling. Your tires first and your geometry second probably make up 90% of ride comfort, so take all building material discussions with a grain of salt.

Then again, if you are going to get a full racing bike and can afford Ti but don't like the stigma of this heavy metal on a race bike, then GET CARBON.

ridethecliche

Does 953 not rust? Rust would be a good reason to go to ti over steel.

Hocam

953 is stainless, so it may develop light surface rust which looks more like a reddish stain, but you'd be long dead before the rust ever got further than that.

Mr.Mavic

Steel. I've ridden Ti and although its plush, it doesn't respond like steel. I just picked up a Waterford a few months ago and I will say that it is probably one of the nicest bikes i have every riden. They ask what I wanted, measured me, and built me a perfect frame. If your concerend about weight, steels still fine. My bike weights in at low 17s with my training wheels, mid 16s with my race wheels, and I ddin't even try to build it up light.

I would say steel, but thats just me. If you want a plush ride thats more comfort then compotition (i know i spelled that one wrong), go with ti.

waterford bikes- 1-262-534-4190 and see if you can talk to dave.

RC2

Nonsense.

dekindy

I thought he was leaning toward 2 bikes instead of one to get a pure commuter/tourer and racer.

If only one, I would get a Waterford R-33 True Temper S3 custom steel with all the necessaries for mounting fenders and racks,etc., and extra clearance for 700x28 tires. Fred Matheny of RoadBikeRider.com describes his Waterford in the 05/24/2007 product tests on RoadbikeRider.com. Road sport geometry is ideal for cross country or fast club racing depending on the wheels and tires selected.

Come on guys, you surely agree he needs a least 2 sets of wheels!

You could tell Richard Schwinn you want want just like Mikey (I mean Freddie ).

Or since I live near Indianapolis, a custom Roark titanium. They have made several bikes for cross country tour leaders and I am sure they could tune the bike as needed.

patentcad

Put simply: Titanium RULES.