livedarklions

And the whole thing about being local is that the stores in one place won't be like the stores in another. Some places will have several good LBS. Some places won't even have a lousy one, let alone a good one. People need different things from different retailers, so each person's calculation of whether to go to the LBS is going to vary by where they are and what they need. So, the post that says something like "I needed ___ from my LBS and they didn't have ____, and therefore LBS are dying" is pretty stupid.

OTOH, saying everyone should go to LBS for everything bike-related to keep them in business also would be pretty stupid. I just haven't seen anyone actually say that yet.
Straw men haunt these LBS threads.

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with your post, just making a tangential point I think it raises.

frogman

Yet another support your local LBS thread ?

mattleegee

Even if you support your bike store their is no guaranteed buddies or parts hook ups
Im trying to purchase a new bike and none come with the group set i favor, when i asked the shop the costs of switching to said groupset i got a huge bill for the parts and installation, and this is buying a new bike from them (@MSRP) at the same time!
Im pretty sure after purchase i will have to tape my bike purchase receipt on my forehead

But i will say needing something or getting out of a bind and having a local shop there is very nice to have
Even sort of Box store Performance Bike that is kind of gone now i have a good story:
i broke my bike chain on the trail 30 miles from my house and carried my bike to the store since it was only 10 mins away. Since i recently bought the bike there they ended up putting a free chain on and got me back on the road within 20min

Joe Bikerider

Must admit I skipped over most of your comments. I support my LBS because it’s right near my local MUP and they are helpful and friendly. Some of your other issues mean nothing to me. Last time I really needed help they fixed the click in my bottom bracket. Dropped the bike off, went to the nearby store, came back and it’s been fine ever since. That’s why.

mstateglfr 

This has received a handful of '+1' replies.
To support something is to help keep it up or to give assistance to.
Financially, customers support a shop thru purchases. Customers keep that shop open thru financial assistance.

Of course service must be given each time for the support to continue.

Just found it odd that you and others took such a narrow interpretation of 'support'.

Support can be conditional...as in there must be perceived value for the support to continue.

It absolutely applies to retail.

livedarklions

I don't get your point--if all "support" means is doing business with the store when you want to, no one needs to be telling people to be doing that.

"Support" is not a synonym for "patronize" or "buy at when convenient", it definitely implies doing something that you might not otherwise do in order to help keep the store in business.

I buy my high speed internet service from Comcast, for example, because I have no alternative. I definitely don't "support" Comcast, and would change providers in a minute if there was a plausible local alternative.

livedarklions

So go to the close one if being 5 minutes away outweighs the benefits of ordering online or going 20 miles away. Don't go there if the convenience or service aren't worth it to you. It's not really a morality question is all I'm saying.

canklecat

Because I'm lucky enough to have an old school bike shop only a mile away. They're good fellers. They treat every customer well, regardless of what kind of bike they're looking for.

They spend a few minutes to fish little freebies out of the junk parts bin, like the cable stop/barrel adjuster doodads I needed to replace my downtube shifters with brifters. Or a spare hub cone or lock nut. Or to remove a stuck pedal because I don't have a proper shop anymore with bench vise and cheater bar. Or whang an old single wall rim back into shape so it's a hoop again instead of a Moebius Strip. No charge. They won't even accept tips.

They tell me the truth when my bike doesn't really need anything, like if my old road bike doesn't feel quite right and mechanic checks it out and says "Nothing wrong. Go ride." Instead of selling me stuff I don't need.

So I almost never leave empty handed. At a minimum I'll buy a spare tube, or patch kit. Often they have samples of recent model goodies, or discontinued models, like pumps, lights, gloves, whatever, on sale for really cheap. Or out of season or discontinued cycling apparel, cheap. So there's always something I can buy to make up for the freebies in doodads and services.

But I'll admit such shops are rare in some areas, and less common now even in places with lots of cyclists and shops. Other local cycling friends prefer other LBSs, which is great -- it shows that old school expertise and customer experience is still valued. Even if we do occasionally cheat on our LBS and buy from REI, Walmart, Amazon or Jenson/Nashbar/(your favorite online store here), we still love our local shops.

jade408

This is why I have now decided to only go to hyper hyper specialized bike shops that basically only order parts when they will be used for something.

I don't like to do my own stuff. I am not going to shop around excessively to get the best price - I'll google to get an idea of the price range, and that is about it.

Big box bike shops have been generally a miss for me. Any shop that only sells big brand stuff is also a miss for me. I profile the shop - if they only have Specialized or Trek stuff it is a no. If they have mostly QBP brands they are probably OK. My preference is a mix of QBP, restored vintage bikes for sale, Velo Orange parts and a few other random brands. That gives me good odds that they may be pretty knowledgeable.

I prefer to shop in store and in person, I am not an expert and I want to ask questions.

3speed

Sorry for the thread repeat since it sounds like it must be frequent. I never spend time here in General sub-forum, and pretty much just look around the C&V or Touring forums.

I'm kinda surprised to hear most people basically saying don't bother with the LBS. I guess I'm really not the only one experiencing no obvious benefit from the LBS. I still wonder if the pricing situation is out of need or greed.

As for the $20 not being a bad price to pull a BB, as I said, I just didn't have the tool and it took 10 minutes. It's not like they had to put a ton of time and effort in. No parts cost. $10, I would think nothing of, but $20 seems steep to me. I guess they just charge $120/hr labor on that job...

Yes, you are supporting Comcast's business. You may not like it, but you are. Every customer who gives them money is supporting the business. Without you, it would fail. Therefore, you're supporting it and keeping it in business.

livedarklions

So now you're taking intention out of your definition of the word? That's absurd. Where is this crazy dictionary that defines "support" as a synonym for " buy from"?

If the word is to mean anything in the context of "support your LBS" it has to mean "buy from a LBS because it's a LBS". It's the opposite of "boycott" . I don't support Comcast because I buy from it when it has a monopoly in my area any more than I'm boycotting Vios because it's not available in my area. I'm fully aware that Comcast is making a monopoly profit off of what I'm paying, and I certainly don't like that, but that's because it costs me too much money, not because of any particular sentiment about Comcast.

I go to my LBS for service and to buy bikes because I like having someone else do the assembly and service work on my bikes. I generally don't buy much in the way of parts and accessories from the two in my city because that would cost more money than I want to spend. Neither shop seems to mind the arrangement, and one of them absolutely encourages it.

krecik

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3speed

I'm not saying we should support the LBS even if we're not getting the value for money. That's the whole point of my thread, which, admittedly, I didn't realize was kind of beating a dead horse(because I never go in the General sub-forum). The point was that I've struggled with rationalizing supporting the LBS and am finally to a point where I'm saying "Does anyone have a good reason, or should I give up on this aspect of supporting local business/community, even though I ride 20+mi per day and love cycling?" I was genuinely asking. I realize I muddled up my first post by including thoughts rather than just the questions, and people have trouble seeing the questions when you include the thoughts behind them. My mistake. Anywho, I think my questions have been answered well enough.

For what it's worth, though, I completely agree with mstateglfr in his quote, regarding that comment.

Paul Barnard

This may come to you as a shocking revelation, but there is a significant amount of variability from one LBS to the next.

3speed

What? I can't imagine such a thing! Thank you So much for helping me to understand that.

indyfabz

Q: Since when are LBS expected to be in the bike recovery business, especially when one of those shops has never gotten a dime of business from my ex and likely never will? (An employee of one shop drive to someone's house to pick up the bike. The owner of the second shop picked it up from the first shop and brought it back to his place. Neither trip was around the block.) A: Because they are run by accessible humans who care about members of the local cycling scene. You can't put a price on that. At least I can't.

downhillmaster

Based upon your OP you quite obviously did not understand that so not sure where the sarcasm is coming from.
Btw, have you read all of the responses?
In a nonsensical thread designed to ferret out fellow LBS haters I believe you have more LBS supporters than not.
Who’s better than you though. Complaining about spending $20 for a job that you could not have performed as it required a special tool that you did not own. Assuming you could have handled it even if you had the tool?

ChinookTx

Or, because they hope you'll go see them to have the bike fixed, or when you need parts. Or that you praise them to your cycling club in hopes of getting their business.

But yeah...

livedarklions

Well, if you understood that, asking about LBS in general terms was sure a stupid thing to do in starting a thread.

The horse is decomposing at this point.

TheRef

$20 BUCKS? REALLY? Are we complaining of a $20 bucks labor charge for something that 3 other LBS couldn't do? What would've been the fair amount in your opinion? $3, $5, $10???? The fact it took 10 minutes is irrelevant. They provided you a service and $20 bucks nowadays is nothing. A plumber, electrician or even a handyman would charge upwards of $100 just to show up. Many auto dealers charge $160+++ to just
touch your car for basic diagnosis. It has nothing to do with charity or "supporting" the lbs.

here is an old story, with many variants available but you get the point:


Nikola Tesla visited Henry Ford at his factory, which was having some kind of difficulty. Ford asked Tesla if he could help identify the problem area. Tesla walked up to a wall of boilerplate and made a small X in chalk on one of the plates. Ford was thrilled, and told him to send an invoice.The bill arrived, for $10,000. Ford asked for a breakdown. Tesla sent another invoice, indicating a $1 charge for marking the wall with an X, and $9,999 for knowing where to put it

livedarklions

Exactly! If being local makes them good, you go there.

If they do what you need them to do well and at a reasonable cost, go there. If you don't need them or they suck, you don't go there.

It's a big fat d-uh topic.

Sy Reene

Is it by chance the same VeloFix company that Canyon uses? just curious

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/service...ice-by-velofix

ChinookTx

Yes it is! They have been great when I dealt with them.

mstateglfr 

Support is simply a word without intent. Intent and level of support can be added to then clarify the type of support being given- as in mandatory support, direct support, involuntary support, indirect support, etc.

Your Comcast example, to me, is one of involuntary support because if you had another option, you would choose to go elsewhere.

These terms though- involuntary support, direct support, etc- they exist for this very reason- because Timmy is wrong.

Support can be an emotional term- how you and Timmy are using it by which you choose to support something due to a variety of reasons. It can also simply describe actions that help hold something up(which being a customer, even begrudgingly, is just that).



Someone can support a place like an LBS because they find value in it, even though its a business transaction.
Someone can support a place like an LBS because they enjoy the culture and view it as a hub for their passion/hobby.
Someone can support a place like an LBS because they like what the LBS stands for- trail support, donating to community, etc.
All those are emotional reasons to support a bike shop

Someone can support a place like an LBS because they dont know how to fix their bike and they break it a lot.
Someone can support a place like an LBS because they want to shop in person for soft goods versus buying online.
Someone can support a place like an LBS because they like the convenience of having product right away instead of 2 days to 2 weeks thru buying online.
All those are pragmatic/practical reasons to support a bike shop


Both groups of examples are an individual supporting a bike shop. And if there is only 1 bike shop in town, you dislike it, but you need a new tube right away- when you buy the tube, you are supporting that bike shop. It may feel like involuntary support(its still technically voluntary because you could choose not to ride), but its support none the less.





Fun talk about words and what they mean to each of us. All it takes is a recycled thread to make for fun discussion on how words mean different things to each of us.

krecik

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