Walter S

Seems like more and more jobs that are low skill/low pay don't have the same "health benefits" they used to. Of course we lost mail delivered on foot many years back. Until recently we had the cop that walked the beat. Here in Atlanta more and more are standing on a battery powered platform instead of walking. At Walmart the clerks don't push shopping carts in from the parking lot. There's a powered dohicky that does that pushing. They just hold down the button - or save effort by leaning on it. Wouldn't want to waist any energy exerting effort!

Where do you see manual effort disappearing?

Machka 

Interesting topic, but perhaps better suited to the Training and Nutrition forum.

wahoonc

We are hiring commercial roofers It is a brutally physical job, unfortunately not too many youngsters want to participate. Our workforce is aging rapidly. I believe the average age of our crews is pushing 50 years old now, and that is industry wide. We quite often have trouble maintain enough crews to perform the work that we are offered.

Aaron

Walter S

Do you think younger people are lazy? Have an attitude about physical work? Are they energetic at play and just lazy at work?

kickstart

What you're not taking into account is that those "labor saving devices" are to increase how much total work one can accomplish, therefore it doesn't really change the amount of energy expended by the worker.

Walter S

That's crazy. Watch the cop riding around on their platform. It looks effortless. And I discussed it with one that told me as much. I used to see a grocery clerk pushing a bunch of carts and really leaning into it to get leverage. Now they sit and push a button.

There's more energy being expended but it is NOT human energy!

kickstart

You just don't get it, the cop is still on his feet and probably covered a larger area with more responsibilities, the cart collector is collecting the same number of carts that used to be done by 3 cart collectors.
Employers don't provide these tools out of the kindnesses of their hearts, they want fewer people to do more work. Ask anyone who actually knows what they're talking about, the work load of the working class is getting more demanding with longer hours and greater stress.

I hate to spoil your theory, but the "saved effort" you're observing is an illusion.

wolfchild

I see it everywhere. But it's really non of my business how other people live their lives or how they conduct themselves...We all have choices, there are many opportunities out there to exercise and keep fit and active. Even if somebody has a sedentary desk job, they still have freedom and opportunities to exercise if they choose to do so...Physical labour jobs is not a prescription or guarantee for vibrant health and fitness, a lot of labour jobs take heavy toll on persons health...I've been doing physical labour jobs most of my life because I am a type of person that enjoys moving around and keeping active, sitting down at a desk and being sedentary all day just kills me.

wahoonc

Well given the overall obesity rate in the US... I think the attitude is the biggest barrier.

Aaron

350htrr

Well, I may be wrong, but, I suspect if people don't want to do a certain job for the going rate... Maybe the going rate should/needs to be raised... JMO

attitude./]+perception of job by society, may be a part of it, but pay enough for a job, like for instance the toilet is backing up and the house is filling up with poop... Someone "will come and clean it up" If you/society would be willing to pay the going rate... Again, JMO

Bandera

Staying "fit" at really sucky jobs the Good Old Way.

-Bandera

wahoonc

And what do YOU consider a reasonable rate? Currently labor costs are our single biggest expense. It is a competitive bidding environment. FWIW our field crew wages range from $12.50 an hour to over $30. There is much more to it than money. We have had plenty of people leave the roof at the end of their first shift to never return.

Not to be a downer, but the world economy is heading for the crapper, people better get used to manual labor if they have any hope of surviving. And wages aren't going to matter.

Aaron

350htrr

WOW dude, I actually agree with you...

350htrr

Don't matter what I think the going wages/rate should be, for people to stick around and keep doing the job, any particular job for that matter... But, your competitors have, probably have, the same problem... I would pay more to keep guys around rather than training them, and new guys over and over and over... "Saving" money short term may not be the answer... Keeping guys around longer is... JMO It's a win ., win all around having a crew that knows what they are doing, working together year in year out... Paying more may actually cost less, in the long run. And no you are not competing against the world economy in roofing. JMO

EDIT; I have Quit jobs in the middle of the day, and or didn't show up the next day... For a variety of reasons, but $ was the make it or break it part in most every decision... People will put up with, or give more as a general rule of thumb to work by depending on how big the $ signs are.

Artkansas 

Wages will always matter. They may not be the only factor though.

In this economy and at my age I found myself over-qualified or mis-qualified for all the spots I was applying to. But I finally got a job last year. I sweep up popcorn at a movie theater. The job has health benefits, not from medical coverage, but because it's five hours of intense exercise.

You could put a picture of me with those photos Bandera posted. Leaning over seats to sweep popcorn up in the next row, climbing over the bars surrounding the handicapped areas rather than walking to the other end of the row of seats, lifting 60lb trash cans, mopping floors, bending over scrubbing toilets and sweeping popcorn from under the back row of seats. And they want me to work fast. It's a far cry from being a Creative Director. It motivates me to work hard at writing the book I'm working on when I get home. I need to get back to some more professional employment. The income from popcorn sweeping isn't enough to pay rent.

B. Carfree

Who remembers that old study of Longshoremen that showed that intense exercise prevented heart disease? It couldn't be done with today's Longshoremen, since they sit on a seat and push buttons rather than manually hauling goods. Of course we wouldn't have the abundant goods in our stores today if they were still doing it by hand.

However, there are still some VERY physical jobs out there. I spent some time hauling agricultural goods from the fields to the processing plants and let me tell you those people in the fields work hard, physical, long hours. One fine day the company radio had a little racist argument/banter going on between the Hispanic guys and some whites. It was getting bit hot when one of the Hispanic guys said, "You Gringos are so lazy that if we all left you'd starve to death since you can't even harvest your own food." The discussion ended because we had all witnessed the truth of it. There were teen-age girls working twelve hour shifts in 1105F heat while we were driving around in air-conditioned trucks making ten times what they made.

Today, even our paperboys deliver the news by automobile. It's sad to see. No wonder we've got an obesity epidemic.

Machka 

Rowan works a physically active job, but it isn't a low paying job. In fact, a lot of physically active jobs pay more than sedentary jobs.

We had both put on a few kg during our round-the-world trip (too much delicious food around the world), but when he started the job he has now, he dropped 20 kg with no trouble at all. He's lighter than before we set off on that trip now. I think he might be lighter than when we got married.

In some ways I envy him the activity. I have to do things like hike 25-35 flights of stairs and go for long walks at lunch each day to get anywhere close to his activity level.

But nevertheless, despite the fact that I have a sedentary job, I can make activity, as mentioned above. Having a sedentary job is no excuse. And I've successfully dropped to my 2004 Great Southern Randonnee + Australian tour weight now.

Darth Lefty 

I'm glad to be metaphorically chained to a desk rather than literally chained to a loom

Lil Bear

Agreed.

Physically working yourself to exhaustion builds character, but it's not for everyone. I'm not even sure it's sustainable for more than a few years.

E: I'm not sure about the mail being delivered on foot - we have carriers that walk a ton.

Artkansas 

I'm waiting for a Roomba to take my job.

cooker

Of course, some active jobs are health-promoting, but a lot of old physical jobs were/are actually pretty hard on the body, causing repetitive strain injuries from doing the same thing over and over, or chronic back injuries from unnatural postures and too heavy loads, and of course industrial accidents like having the boom hit your head or the winch take off your fingers, etc.

cooker

I heard the biggest demand is for left handed roofers. If you have a righty and a lefty teamed up to nail shingles, they can start at the middle and work outwards in both directions - is that the case in your setting?

I-Like-To-Bike

Sitting/sleeping under a shade tree as a pastime, may not be as physically challenging as doing field work to support oneself/family but it does free the mind for dreaming great thoughts and good ideas.

kickstart

I tried desk work for a short time, and can say without hesitation I rather die than be stuck at a desk. That said, I feel the same about factory work too. I need to be activity out, and about.

kickstart

Its not about laziness, its about desperation. Being a field hand is working for starvation wages that is only tolerable for recent illegal immigrants trying to get a foothold on a new start, or better than starving at home.
In reality one cant compare kids delivering newspapers in their neighborhood back in the day, and todays adults delivering newspapers in a much larger area.