MinnMan

Sure, climbing hills is good training, and climbing steep hills (say 12-14%) is harder, but what's the training value in climbing steep hills? Put another way, if you have the choice of two routes up a hill, one at 14% and the other, twice the distance at 7%, what's the advantage in choosing the 14% grade?

Apart from the character-building that comes with suffering, I can think of 3 reasons why I should, at least some of the time, choose the steeper way up. (1) It's good for strength training, just in the way that lifting heavy weights part of the time is good for gaining strength in the gym. (2) I'm certain to do at least part of the stretch out of the saddle, and it's good to work those muscles. (3) It's a good way to get into Z5 for a stretch (but one can do that on a 7% hill too, of course). There could be disadvantages, too, including inviting muscle strains.

For those of you who race, I suppose another answer is that if you are going to race on steep hills, you should also train on steep hills, but I don't race.

I'm sure I'm inviting a bunch of snark here, but out of curiosity, what role do steep (>10%) hills play in your training regimen?

RShantz

To me the only difference has to do body positioning assuming the steep hill is so steep you have to stand & that you are not accustomed to standing. You can put out just as much power on the less steep hill (or the flats for that matter) - you just have to push yourself.

Dan333SP

Anything over 10% is an easy way to remind myself that I could always lose more weight.

12strings

For me, TIME is an important factor, so if I want maximum fitness gains over a short ride, doing a .5 mile 10-15% hill gets me working harder faster.

And I've found that when I do that short steep hill regularly, the longer shallow hills become easier. And I can get the fitness to do longer (4-5 miles at 6-7%) faster than if I never did steep hills.

Scarbo

Because it is fun?

Also, depending on where you live you might not have a choice! That's true for me. The steepest grades concentrate maximum effort in a shorter amount of time.

Jakedatc

I think there is a mental aspect of getting used to going at steep stuff that can be intimidating at first. If you can start hitting any climb and being like "oh this is like ____ st. i know how this goes" and like others said.. it makes less steep hills seem easier... mentally and physically with the strength work

mrodgers

This. It's amazing how flat 10-12% becomes after you've just slogged up 19%.

Also amazing how just a couple rides up that 19% is so much easier than the first time. First time I rode the 19% I have, I flipped the front wheel up and around and was pointing downhill again. Tried to get going again by going cross-hill and when I turned back up, flipped the front wheel up and around again. Second time I rode it, I leaned way over the front wheel and had no problem other than the struggle to climb. Third time I just pedaled right up. I put this route regularly on my rides now, at least every 2 weeks if not try for once a week.

All my hills are short though, they just come very frequently. I'd love to have 4-5 mile climbs. Mine are more like 1/2 to 3/4 mile but there will be 15 of them in 10 miles.

DrIsotope

I think hill-related threads are becoming my favorite, because they are so quintessentially BF. And by that nature, also BS. Nowhere else will you find more humblebragging self-back-pattery than in these sorts of threads. They truly are wondrous.

Bottom line, any real distance logging over 250ft/mi sucks. Doing much steeper grades for shorter distances absolutely does not have the same effect as doing more nominal grades for miles and miles. Long grades genuinely tax different parts of the body. The bigger part of my climbing yesterday was (by BF estimations) a basically flat 6.5% average... for five and a half miles. I was slow (as per usual) and it was about as fun as it usually is (which is not much.) I climb hills to get to do +40mph on the way back down.

I've got a nice short hill over in my town for all you supermen-- only peaks at 28%. I've ridden it a grand total of one time, and don't really feel the urge to do it again. The notion that any grade above 10% gets easy after awhile... maybe if you weigh 130lbs, I guess.

Scarbo

Seriously, dude, you may think it is all braggadocio, but 6.5%? Really--is that all? Come up to my neck of the woods sometime. That is considered flat land. lol

And, yes, it really does happen to help if you weigh 130 pounds or thereabouts. No two ways about that.

Oh, and not all of us have the luxury of being retired. So, yes, concentrated efforts are just a necessity since we don't have all day to be planted on our machines!

DrIsotope

Strava or it didn't happen. With that level of humblebrag going, you should be at the very least half a million vertical feet by now. If not, it's just cheap talk.

Myself, I don't seek out those "flat" hills every day, so my year total is right around a paltry 400,000. I know, lazy, right?

seypat

This is the number 1 reason. Number 2 would be that you learn how to better plan your routes to go around/avoid the steep climbs, or any climbing, if you can.

Scarbo

I love this. I have a friend who lives and breathes by Strava. He posts the same rides with the same results all the time. Quite funny, actually.

You might be surprised to know that there is a whole lot of riding that takes place in this country and around the world that never makes it to that vanity press.

PepeM

The only 'training value' I see on them is getting used to them for when you have to race on them. Watts are watts so prescribed power intervals can be done anywhere. However, steep hills force you to do things you usually don't do such as using a really low cadence, spending more effort in simply balancing the bike, dealing with no cooling wind whatsoever, etc. So yes, I'd say their only value is in specificity; if you'll have to deal with them during competition, you better be used to dealing with them, especially since that's when things usually break up.

PepeM

Also, I climb 35% grades before breakfast in Zone1 doing 22mph. The rest of you are just weak.

hsuehhwa

I do 1-2 mile 10-12% hills training and repeats all the time. Based on my own experience, steep hill training does not really make me faster, but it makes long 5-10% climb really easy, such as ~5% ~20 mile climb (Mt Baldy, GMR, Hwy 39) in South Cal, since I was able to climb the less steep hills more confidently and at a lower HR (~130 to 140).

Scarbo

+1

But, where's your Strava? ^^^^

12strings

All you need to do is switch to titanium bolts, then the steep climbs are EASY!

Seriously, I like a variety of climbs, and I live in a hilly area with just that:

-.5 miles at 11-15%
-2 miles at 3-4%
-3 miles averaging 5-6%, with a 7-9% top section.
-5 miles gradually building from 1-2% up to about 6%.
-.3 miles at 10%
-.9 miles at 9%
-1.2 miles at 9%

...And several others I can't think of right now. I can ride from my house to the base of any of these hills in about 15-20 minutes.

DrIsotope

That is some solid Bike Forums Representin' right there.

PepeM

If a climb, any climb, is easy then you just need to dial it up to 400 watts. It even works on downhills! Not for me though, 400 watts is low zone 2 for me.

indyfabz

What do you mean by "sucks"? I did this back in September during a fully-loaded (i.e., camping and cooking gear) tour from Brattleboro, VT to Philly:

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/17494436


4.1 miles with 269'/mile. It sucked in the sense that it was difficult, but I enjoyed it.

indyfabz

While carrying a tamal?

PepeM

One on each of my back pockets. Need to fuel throughout the ride, don't want to bonk that early in the day.

DrIsotope

Yet here you are, trolling it up... and poorly, at that. If you want to spice the joint up, think more PepeM style, and less "ooh, I'm faux clever."

You always "enjoy" those climbs in retrospect. But go deep into your memory box, and think-- at any point during that climb, did you say to yourself, "Man, this is just the best. I hope this hill never ends." No. You did not. The climb is to get to the top. It is truly not about the journey.

Scarbo

Wrong. But, you would never understand. Ask your Strava to explain it to you.

hsuehhwa

I created both segments. I'm one of the slowest guys there.


1. 10-11%, 1 mi Hills Repeats at Newport Coast
https://www.strava.com/segments/12712660


2. Some short ~15%, 0.3 mil hill repeats at Palos Verdes (I like this route because you may descend at a different/more flat route)
https://www.strava.com/segments/11372197