Are vintage dropouts a design flaw or hazard?
#1
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
Are vintage dropouts a design flaw or hazard?
I was riding my Bianchi today. It has Gipiemme dropouts that look like this:
As I was standing and hammering up a hill in what was probably a too-high gear, my wheel moved in the dropout. I have closed-cam Crampy quick-releases. I guess I just didn't have it on tight enough.
In any case, the wheel immediately locked on the frame, and down I went. Fortunately, due to my overall suckiness, I was going about Garmin-pause speed, so nothing bruised except my ego, and maybe my knee and hip. (It was my first significant fall since breaking my ankle 5 years ago, so I was pleasantly surprised by the outcome).
Was this dropout (from 1986 in my case) a design flaw?
I looked on my 2014 steel bike and the dropouts for the rear wheel go down, not forward, so presumably the risk of the wheel moving in the frame is substantially less.
As I was standing and hammering up a hill in what was probably a too-high gear, my wheel moved in the dropout. I have closed-cam Crampy quick-releases. I guess I just didn't have it on tight enough.
In any case, the wheel immediately locked on the frame, and down I went. Fortunately, due to my overall suckiness, I was going about Garmin-pause speed, so nothing bruised except my ego, and maybe my knee and hip. (It was my first significant fall since breaking my ankle 5 years ago, so I was pleasantly surprised by the outcome).
Was this dropout (from 1986 in my case) a design flaw?
I looked on my 2014 steel bike and the dropouts for the rear wheel go down, not forward, so presumably the risk of the wheel moving in the frame is substantially less.
#2
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Check your axles. Do they poke out past the dropout? If so, your quick release might have been bottoming out more on the axle than biting the dropout. Could have been a simple case of needing to tighten the Q/R more too.
I wouldn't say horizontal dropouts are at fault for this. Vertical dropouts - as on modern bikes today - often have a slight angle to them as well which could aid a wheel coming out, if a Q/R wasn't biting. Even if it was straight down, one could get a wheel to pop out of one with a slightly-loose QR.
-Kurt
I wouldn't say horizontal dropouts are at fault for this. Vertical dropouts - as on modern bikes today - often have a slight angle to them as well which could aid a wheel coming out, if a Q/R wasn't biting. Even if it was straight down, one could get a wheel to pop out of one with a slightly-loose QR.
-Kurt
#3
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I've had that happen to me a few times (though always from a start so I haven't crashed, thank goodness) and it's a real confidence killer, for sure. Sometimes I don't stand up and pedal for fear of wrenching the wheel out again.
#4
Senior Member
Horizontal dropouts can be prone to wheel slippage, but they usually work fine.
Is there smooth paint or chrome on the clamp surfaces of the dropout? Sometimes that needs to be roughed up before the wheel clamping works properly.
Is there smooth paint or chrome on the clamp surfaces of the dropout? Sometimes that needs to be roughed up before the wheel clamping works properly.
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#6
~>~
Check your dropouts with the proper alignment tool to make sure that they are parallel.
Use classic Internal Cam QR skewers from Campag or Shimano properly tensioned not the "modern" external cam designs which lack the compression needed for horizontal dropouts: Done.
-Bandera
Use classic Internal Cam QR skewers from Campag or Shimano properly tensioned not the "modern" external cam designs which lack the compression needed for horizontal dropouts: Done.
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 04-08-19 at 07:42 PM.
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+ 1 on this. Get a real quick release. People raced on bikes with these drop outs for a long time . . .
#8
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
It is chrome, but it is the first time this happened since 1986. I just took the bike out of my trainer, so it is possible I somehow loosened the QR a little bit when I did that.
#9
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
Edit:
It turns out is a Shimano look-alike that I think came with a replacement 105 wheel I got ca. 1995. But functionally, I think it is nearly identical and is internal cam.
Last edited by Cyclist0108; 04-10-19 at 05:29 PM.
#10
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
Check your dropouts with the proper alignment tool to make sure that they are parallel.
Use classic Internal Cam QR skewers from Campag or Shimano properly tensioned not the "modern" external cam designs which lack the compression needed for horizontal dropouts: Done.
-Bandera
Use classic Internal Cam QR skewers from Campag or Shimano properly tensioned not the "modern" external cam designs which lack the compression needed for horizontal dropouts: Done.
-Bandera
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#12
Senior Member
As I was standing and hammering up a hill in what was probably a too-high gear, my wheel moved in the dropout... I guess I just didn't have it on tight enough. In any case, the wheel immediately locked on the frame, and down I went.
Was this dropout (from 1986 in my case) a design flaw?
Was this dropout (from 1986 in my case) a design flaw?
The next thing you know, he'll be asking for a positive retention device on every axle attachment point.
#13
~>~
Something has changed, most likely moving from the trainer to the road.
Re-set QR tension F&R and proceed like it was 1986.
-Bandera
#14
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
Is there any reason the drop-out should be horizontal?
The QR was by no means loose. I had to pry the thing open while lying in a pool of blood in the middle of an interstate highway.
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Same reason a fork with dropouts facing down and back with disc brakes is a design flaw.
Is there any reason the drop-out should be horizontal?
The QR was by no means loose. I had to pry the thing open while lying in a pool of blood in the middle of an interstate highway.
Is there any reason the drop-out should be horizontal?
The QR was by no means loose. I had to pry the thing open while lying in a pool of blood in the middle of an interstate highway.
-Kurt
#16
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
Well, I got new wheels with a 130mm White Industry Hub, and had the frame cold-set (by someone competent) from its original 126mm-compatible geometry about 3 years ago, so I have made some hardware changes...
#17
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#18
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#19
~>~
-Bandera
#20
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
#22
~>~
If I had a new 130 wheel to install on a re-spaced horizontal dropout frame-set I'd go with a new Shimano 130 spec internal cam QR with great confidence that all would stay put.
-Bandera
#23
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
[MENTION=335281]Bandera[/MENTION]
I've got Shimano Dura Ace internal cams on my 2014 bike. I guess I could always try that. Those things don't budge.
The headset and the quick releases are about the only thing that remains from the original build.
...
I've got Shimano Dura Ace internal cams on my 2014 bike. I guess I could always try that. Those things don't budge.
The headset and the quick releases are about the only thing that remains from the original build.
...
Last edited by Cyclist0108; 09-26-19 at 02:17 PM.
#24
~>~
I've got Shimano Dura Ace internal cams on my 2014 bike. I guess I could always try that. Those things don't budge.
-Bandera
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The old design didn’t kill anyone most of the time. Clearly vertical drops are a conspiracy