zwift hub one
10-12-23, 11:27 AM
#1
Randomhead
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zwift hub one
Zwift just introduced a mod to their trainer where the rear derailleur isn't used to change gears. The gears are virtual. It's called zwift hub one. There is only one gear in the back.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2023/10/...ks-review.html
The only reason I ever shift is because of zwift. Otherwise I'm in erg mode. I find shifting for zwift to be really annoying. Seems to me that this could be done outside of zwift, just have another controller. I'm not well-versed enough in the protocol to be sure.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2023/10/...ks-review.html
The only reason I ever shift is because of zwift. Otherwise I'm in erg mode. I find shifting for zwift to be really annoying. Seems to me that this could be done outside of zwift, just have another controller. I'm not well-versed enough in the protocol to be sure.
10-12-23, 04:20 PM
#2
I am not a fan of Zwift application, due to its lack of real simulation of real riding physics and due to their focus on gamification.
However, I must admit that their hardware "Zwift one" might be the future: take a crap old bike, put it on the trainer, and you'll have the simulation of riding a modern 24 speeds bike indoors with electronic shifting. Or, maybe I didn't understand the product?
However, I must admit that their hardware "Zwift one" might be the future: take a crap old bike, put it on the trainer, and you'll have the simulation of riding a modern 24 speeds bike indoors with electronic shifting. Or, maybe I didn't understand the product?
Last edited by Redbullet; 10-12-23 at 04:25 PM.
10-12-23, 06:05 PM
#3
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That's a pretty good description of what it is, and also a good description of my trainer bike. 34-28 isn't a low enough gear for me to comfortably ride up some of the mountains in zwift, particularly on the climbing portal. It would be really nice to avoid having to put a lower gear on there. That just seems silly.
10-12-23, 06:19 PM
#4
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I really like the concept. It would be awesome if another company came out with a similar product that was "open" and able to be used on all smart trainers and with all training software.
From reports so far, I'm fairly sure that this device will only connect to Zwift at the moment, it's locked down. Using it with other platforms is out for now. The ability is there (apparently) but other software companies will need to work with Zwift in order for it to work for other platforms, assuming Zwift even let them access the protocol.
From reports so far, I'm fairly sure that this device will only connect to Zwift at the moment, it's locked down. Using it with other platforms is out for now. The ability is there (apparently) but other software companies will need to work with Zwift in order for it to work for other platforms, assuming Zwift even let them access the protocol.
10-13-23, 10:06 AM
#6
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What are the lowest and highest equivalent gears available with this trainer? Eg. riding on the flat with Trainer Difficulty at 100%, In the highest virtual gear at 90 cadence = X mph. On a real cassette same thing would be what gear combo or inches? Similar question for the lowest gear.
I assume it's the case, but is that single rear cog replaceable using a standard spline? While it supposedly will work with any chain from 8 speed to 12, I'm guessing then the cog is a 12-speed one, while if someone might be riding a 9 or 10 speed bike only, they might be a little better off reinstalling a single cog that matches their chain?
I assume it's the case, but is that single rear cog replaceable using a standard spline? While it supposedly will work with any chain from 8 speed to 12, I'm guessing then the cog is a 12-speed one, while if someone might be riding a 9 or 10 speed bike only, they might be a little better off reinstalling a single cog that matches their chain?
10-13-23, 01:31 PM
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ok, so reading teh review you do shift, just not your RD. there is really a button to perform a virtual shift. makes sense. too bad it is presumable wireless. had they used a wire it could have worked with all platforms.
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10-13-23, 02:32 PM
#9
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I'm looking forward to seeing this available for Wahoo. I have 3 bikes I train with - a 10 spd, an 11 spd, and a 12 spd. I'd be nice to simply throw whichever one I want to train on on the trainer without worrying about the cassette.
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10-14-23, 03:32 AM
#10
The main use case for this is when you are using multiple bikes on the same trainer with incompatible cassettes. Or an older bike with limited gear ratios compared to your main outdoor bike.
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10-14-23, 03:38 PM
#11
I have just learned that, indeed, that Zwift Hub One can only be used with Zwift app, since shifting is captured by the app, then the app sends the command to the trainer. As such, it is not of interest for me anymore.
For trainer producers, I think the big win would be to transmit the shifting directly to a "one cog trainer". Such a trainer could be used with any app, without expecting new developments of the application to support it.
For trainer producers, I think the big win would be to transmit the shifting directly to a "one cog trainer". Such a trainer could be used with any app, without expecting new developments of the application to support it.
10-16-23, 12:35 PM
#12
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That's a pretty good description of what it is, and also a good description of my trainer bike. 34-28 isn't a low enough gear for me to comfortably ride up some of the mountains in zwift, particularly on the climbing portal. It would be really nice to avoid having to put a lower gear on there. That just seems silly.
I like this as a concept. I also like shifting my gears while on the trainer, especially on those long climbs - finding the right cadence is part of the challenge.
10-17-23, 05:55 AM
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The one thing about the new Zwift trainer that has prevented me from buying one (vs my Saris H3) is that it requires the game shifters. If Zwift figures-out how to allow shifting via one's Shimano Di2, SRAM, or Campy electronic shifters, then I'll have a hard time not buying the trainer!
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10-17-23, 01:01 PM
#14
The one thing about the new Zwift trainer that has prevented me from buying one (vs my Saris H3) is that it requires the game shifters. If Zwift figures-out how to allow shifting via one's Shimano Di2, SRAM, or Campy electronic shifters, then I'll have a hard time not buying the trainer!
10-17-23, 04:38 PM
#15
Has anyone seen one in real life? They seem to be just adjusting the "trainer difficulty" setting as you flip the accompanied gear shifter. The physical device you put on the back is an overblown fixie bike single-speed adaptor. You actually don't need to have it or replace your existing cassette. If you know the number of teeth it comes with, you can set your chain on a larger/smaller cog to get more gear.
10-17-23, 06:19 PM
#16
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I don't think it's trainer difficulty, I think it's adding/subtracting from the slope. The trainer sets the resistance based on rider/bike weight, slope, wind, drafting, rolling resistance. So the obvious thing to do is mess with the slope. The trainer sends back the power the rider was generating and zwift only needs that.
Maybe they are doing something different, dunno. But I think that would work, and it doesn't really have to be built into the trainer or zwift. I think the reason they need zwift is because of the controls. My idea is to set a device up to tell zwift it's a trainer controller, and then hooks up to the trainer and acts like it's zwift. All it would do is mess with the slope.
Maybe they are doing something different, dunno. But I think that would work, and it doesn't really have to be built into the trainer or zwift. I think the reason they need zwift is because of the controls. My idea is to set a device up to tell zwift it's a trainer controller, and then hooks up to the trainer and acts like it's zwift. All it would do is mess with the slope.
Last edited by unterhausen; 10-17-23 at 06:23 PM.
10-17-23, 09:02 PM
#17
Zwift sends the trainer on how much resistance to generate or work required to traverse a segment of road based on their calculation of the resistance of the route being simulated and you as a rider, the physics of the game. Trainer difficulty adjusts the resistance Zwift sends to trainer after the physics has been accounted for but does not change the work required. It does not add or subtract from the slope. It's simulating the same 15% slope whether you have 34x32 or 39x25 in the back or setting the trainer difficulty to 50% or 100%. One of those is a lot easier on the knees than the other but you are still going over the 15% slope. You may go as fast, mph, but not at the same cadence.
Last edited by kcjc; 10-17-23 at 09:17 PM.
10-18-23, 04:17 AM
#18
Zwift sends the trainer on how much resistance to generate or work required to traverse a segment of road based on their calculation of the resistance of the route being simulated and you as a rider, the physics of the game. Trainer difficulty adjusts the resistance Zwift sends to trainer after the physics has been accounted for but does not change the work required. It does not add or subtract from the slope. It's simulating the same 15% slope whether you have 34x32 or 39x25 in the back or setting the trainer difficulty to 50% or 100%. One of those is a lot easier on the knees than the other but you are still going over the 15% slope. You may go as fast, mph, but not at the same cadence.
I can’t see how adjusting “Trainer Difficulty” would work for Zwift gear simulation when riding on the flat where “Trainer Difficulty” has no effect AFAIK.
10-18-23, 04:24 AM
#19
Has anyone seen one in real life? They seem to be just adjusting the "trainer difficulty" setting as you flip the accompanied gear shifter. The physical device you put on the back is an overblown fixie bike single-speed adaptor. You actually don't need to have it or replace your existing cassette. If you know the number of teeth it comes with, you can set your chain on a larger/smaller cog to get more gear.
10-18-23, 04:31 AM
#20
I don't think it's trainer difficulty, I think it's adding/subtracting from the slope. The trainer sets the resistance based on rider/bike weight, slope, wind, drafting, rolling resistance. So the obvious thing to do is mess with the slope. The trainer sends back the power the rider was generating and zwift only needs that.
Maybe they are doing something different, dunno. But I think that would work, and it doesn't really have to be built into the trainer or zwift. I think the reason they need zwift is because of the controls. My idea is to set a device up to tell zwift it's a trainer controller, and then hooks up to the trainer and acts like it's zwift. All it would do is mess with the slope.
Maybe they are doing something different, dunno. But I think that would work, and it doesn't really have to be built into the trainer or zwift. I think the reason they need zwift is because of the controls. My idea is to set a device up to tell zwift it's a trainer controller, and then hooks up to the trainer and acts like it's zwift. All it would do is mess with the slope.
10-18-23, 04:43 AM
#21
I don't think that using their controls is so difficult. I understand the shifter is a tinny device, easy to mount. My concern is that it transmits only to the app - Zwift, which is far to be my preferred app. But I guess that a one cog trainer being directly controlled by such simulation of shifting, regardless the app used, is a totally different solution and I heard nothing about such project on the market. I would say that Tacx would be well positioned to build that, given their always innovative electronic brake and virtual fly wheel. I'd switch my Tacx genius smart, although still in good shape, for such a trainer, but... who knows if or when it will be available...
10-18-23, 06:29 AM
#22
They are certainly adjusting trainer resistance to simulate gear changes, but it’s not as simple as changing the “Trainer Difficulty” setting, which only affects the resistance on slopes. In this case they are adjusting resistance to simulate different gearing regardless of slope.
10-18-23, 07:58 AM
#23
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Fiddling with the trainer difficulty isn't really a dirty secret in races, because you still only go as fast as your power output will make you go in their simulation.
Slope is the cleanest thing to fiddle with for simulated gears, but they might not have to do this because they are controlling both ends of the communication. It obviously wouldn't work if you have a wahoo climb. I haven't managed to get ahold of the FE-C standard, I'm just looking at some trainer control source code on github.
Slope is the cleanest thing to fiddle with for simulated gears, but they might not have to do this because they are controlling both ends of the communication. It obviously wouldn't work if you have a wahoo climb. I haven't managed to get ahold of the FE-C standard, I'm just looking at some trainer control source code on github.
10-18-23, 08:24 AM
#24
Fiddling with the trainer difficulty isn't really a dirty secret in races, because you still only go as fast as your power output will make you go in their simulation.
Slope is the cleanest thing to fiddle with for simulated gears, but they might not have to do this because they are controlling both ends of the communication. It obviously wouldn't work if you have a wahoo climb. I haven't managed to get ahold of the FE-C standard, I'm just looking at some trainer control source code on github.
Slope is the cleanest thing to fiddle with for simulated gears, but they might not have to do this because they are controlling both ends of the communication. It obviously wouldn't work if you have a wahoo climb. I haven't managed to get ahold of the FE-C standard, I'm just looking at some trainer control source code on github.
10-18-23, 08:33 AM
#25
Except trainer difficulty works when coming down the hill. Lowering the difficulty will reduce how quickly you spin out just like being in the big gears in real life. It's a uniform application but you don't feel it much unless the grade points up. That's a dirty, not so secrete, hack people use for racing.
The other quirk is that I think descent slope gradients are halved in Zwift for some reason even at 100%
