IceNine

Question for those who know Panasonic bikes really well: How do the Panasonic Schwinn's compare to Panasonic's own branded bikes in the same time frame? Did Panasonic hold anything back when they were building for Schwinn and thus competing against themselves?

The reason I ask is that I used to work as a Japanese interpreter. In the mid-90s I had a gig involving the same company known as Panasonic. They were installing a new line to produce AA batteries for one of their primary competitors (who seemingly had no R&D of their own). It came out in a private discussion with the Japanese side that Panasonic was installing an older technology that was one-third as efficient as their own best line at that time. I don't think the American side even knew that they were getting the older crap.

Now obviously those are very different industries with not very many battery makers so the competition is more direct--you buy this one or one of those other 4-5 brands. The bicycle industry is much more fragmented, so the competition is not as direct for bicycle manufacturers.

But if Panasonic was selling less than their best to a competitor in another industry, do you think they did that when building for Schwinn? Panasonic is such a huge company with operations in so many industries that it may well be that different parts had a lot of autonomy, so perhaps there is no reason to assume any correlation.

due ruote 

I can't really comment, except by way of a couple pics of my lugged Super Sport frame, which I'm reasonably sure is a Panasonic bike. It rides great and the lugwork is quite clean. If this is their junk, I'll take it.

Amani576

I've heard absolutely no complaints about Panasonic built frames... period. The Super Sport in the previous post is GORGEOUS. And my DX-6000 is a well built, VERY nice riding bike.
You've got to remember, they were a Japanese company, and for the most part even Japanese "crap" is still pretty good. The Japanese are, and have always been a very hard working, dedicated people. I can't see why they'd try to slight a company that's paying them royalties for constructing a competing product. In America it would be different, honestly, it wouldn't surprise me. But Japanese culture teaches, or atleast used to teach, an honor system. People would leave the keys in the ignition of their scooters, cigarette vending machines and alcohol vending machines have only disappeared relatively recently (last 10-15 years). The generation that produced those machines were for the most part dignified and honorable. It just doesn't make any sense to me for them to slight anyone in such a way.
-Gene-

WNG

Panasonic OEMing for an American labeled competitor wouldn't be strange. Yes, they may have used a technology that's not their state of the art. But did the bidding and specs from the American co. specify it? I suspect the contract was for the lowest cost. So they offered yester-tech.

Presently, Duracell and Energizer NiMH batteries are produced by Sanyo. But they aren't Sanyo's Eneloop technology line. They reserved that for themselves, and just recently, made them for Rayovac.

I think any OEM would be happy to sell wholesale to anyone, even a competitor if they specified it and willing to pay for it.

ZeRinger

I haven't been up close and personal with Panasonic built Schwinns in many years, but I can say that the Panasonic built Centurions that I've seen (mid to late eighties) were virtually identical to my Panasonic branded bikes. Remember, the founder of Panasonic (Konosuke Matsu****a) was adopted into a family who owned a bicycle shop as a child. He passion for bicycles began at an early age and that was one of the reasons Panasonic had been building bicycles and tires even though they seemed somewhat out of place with their other product offerings. Quality, therefore, was rather important. :-)

cudak888 

The "low-end" (and mid-range) Japanese Schwinn models of the 1980's were not only excellent, they were nothing short of a giant step up from the Varsities and Continentals of the past.

-Kurt

wrk101

+1 They just should have done it sooner.

austex

I have a Schwinn-asonic Prelude from 1985. It was one step below the Paramount in the Schwinn line, but I would put it up against any production bike you choose for quality, bar none. I think Schwinn had plenty of product knowledge to spec and monitor Panasonic product quality, and, unlike batteries, the quality is right there on view, not "hidden" in the chemistry.

tmh657

I had a '88 Schwinn prologue with Tange Prestige tubes. It was made in Japan and is a very nice bike. Very light and responsive.

IceNine

I didn't mean to suggest that Matsu****a somehow was dishonest or unethical in selling older technology to the battery competitor.

In any case, I am a very happy owner of this 1984 Panasonic-built Schwinn Voyageur with Tange Champion #2 tubing:

beakgeek

I was searching for a DX-5000 and stumbled on a Panasonic made 1977 Schwinn Volare - the next frame down from the Paramount in 1977. I actually have a chance to buy that Dx that I always wanted, but don't want to get rid of the volare:

https://fixedgeargallery.com/2007/aug...ceBrashear.htm

NormanF

Does any one know where Schwinn spec'ed the Columbus Tenax tubing for the Schwinn Madison back in the 1980s?

due ruote 

[QUOTE=beakgeek;8467875]I was searching for a DX-5000 and stumbled on a Panasonic made 1977 Schwinn Volare - the next frame down from the Paramount in 1977. I actually have a chance to buy that Dx that I always wanted, but don't want to get rid of the volare:

If I may, I wouldn't want anyone to skip the link and miss that bike. It's a beauty. I used to own a Plymouth Volare - didn't look a thing like that.

geekrunner

I've had two Panasonic built Schwinns, '87 LeTours, and although both wee kind of plain, they both rode nicely and were light. I also have an '87 Panasonic DX-3000 under construction, and it differs slightly in lugging and dropouts, but nonetheless is a great looking bike. YOu can't go wrong either way.

geek

cyclotoine

Do you mean which tube in the frame? I'd assume all or at least the main tubes. My understanding of tenax was that it was a basic chromo made by columbus and schwinn got to give it a unique name hoping to catch the market for people wanting columbus steel. I have had a couple Tenax bike pass through my hands and they were all made in Mississippi. I am not sure if all tenax bikes were or not.

RobbieTunes

+1
If you spend enough time tinkering on many Japanese frames from the same era, it doesn't take long to realize the similarities of those likely produced by Panasonic. Not that many volume-produced bikes of the era were painted so well or shared the same overall quality level.

They either came from Panasonic, or imitation was the form of flattery used. To me, either is enough to set Panasonic apart.

And man, their tape decks had good motors.

NormanF

Its actually a nice mild steel.... its funny the head badge still says Chicago Schwinn. A Mississippi rebranding wouldn't have been as catchy. The last Schwinns to be made in the good ol USA!

cudak888 

If I may say one other thing - the upper mid-range Japanese machines of this time (including the upper mid-range Japanese-made Schwinns), in my opinion, exceeded the build quality per example in comparison to most of the upper-range Italian machines of the time, e.g. Guerciotti, Rossin, Benotto. (This, of course, excludes the very top end such as De Rosa, Masi, and Cinelli).

-Kurt

krems81 

Late 80's Torelli was very nice too. I was looking at one a couple weeks ago and thinking that the fine detail and finishing reminded me of Japaneese bikes of the period.

beakgeek

Oh I guess I should mention that I have a Panasonic made chrome1977 Super Le Tour 12.2 as well. It is my wife's bike since it is too small for me.

reverborama

They weren't all great...

Back in about '74 I bought a Schwinn World Traveler. I wanted a Varsity but they were sold out due to the bike boom. The World Traveler was lugged which looked ugly next to the smooth, organic lines of the Varsity, the Continental (out of my price range) and the SuperSport (I could only dream about a bike like that). And indeed they were ugly lugs. But I was hot for a 10-speed, Schwinns were the best bicycles in the world, I had $100 saved up, and I needed instant gratification.

It had an astabula crank and the same built in kickstand that came with the electro-forged twins. It had steel wheels and weighed more than a Varsity despite an alloy stem (which now graces my Varsity) and alloy bars (which I later cut up for bullhorns). It never really shifted well... It was a piece of junk but I didn't know any better at the time.

BobHufford

I hadn't heard that Schwinn named it. I thought the story went that in 1985 Columbus introduced Tenax, couldn't fulfill the demand and then used cosmetically "rejected" SL/SP as a substitute. Schwinn then bought out all the remaining stock for that year. So if you have a late '85 Super Sport/Tempo/Voyageur, for instance, there is a chance it's built with Columbus SL/SP, but labeled as Tenax.

I used to have an '85 Super Sport with Tenax. I thought it was very nice ...

https://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1...985Ltwt10.html

I also like my Panasonic built '85 Voyageur SP (a mix of Columbus SL/SP and labeled as such).

https://home.mchsi.com/~bhufford3/85voyageur.html

Edit: Oh yeah! My wife likes her '85 Voyageur (though she hasn't had a chance to ride it since I can't seem to get it put back together ... typical of me). Thanks Eric A. (aka "Sierra")!



Bob

cyclotoine

I had an '86 tempo and an 88 premis, both badged as tenax... apparently I sold them too cheeply!

Timbike

The Panasonic Schwinn's used Columbus tubing and Panasonic's own brand usually used Tange. Components varied from bike to bike within each brand. Most of these bikes are outstanding bargains today. As far as the World Traveler goes...it seems to always get a bad rap on this forum, but I have been nothing but impressed with mine that I picked up a couple of months ago. Outstanding ride with it's 1020 carbon steel frame and randaoneur bars and still shifts and breaks flawlessly. Yea it's heavy but it wasn't an expensive bike at all...priced similar to the Varsity but certainly had much more character than the varsity which was owned by about every upper crust suburbanite. The opaque green color was quite unique as well. I have it's more expensive cousin as well, the World Voyageur, and while this is an outstanding bike for sure, the Traveler is certainly not that much inferior.

Grim

My understanding is Schwinn had no real mid line bikes in the late 60's early 70's. You had 35lb Varsity and then 22 pound Paramount at 5 times the price. Other bike dealers had true mid line bikes that were under 30lb and nearly the same build quality as the Paramount. The Schwinn Dealers sued Schwinn proper because their contract prevented them from selling other marks and they were getting destroyed by the competition.
So the end result is Schwinn did just like the competing LBS were doing with their house brands and ordering Spec built bikes with their brand. Now the quality was on par with the Paramount so Schwinn ordered them a bit lower tier. Example. I am pretty sure my Super LeTour 12.2 was 4130 straight gauge to keep the weight UP to 26lb so that it was not competing head to head with the Paramounts. In the 70's there were also ordering them with od size tube so you had to use Schwinn branded parts.

Having had a couple Panasonic built Schwinn and Panasonic proper's even with way Schwinn ordered them they were quality. I kind of regret selling that 12.2. It was a nice rider. I had one of the nice 85 travelers with the double butted 4130 frames and a 87 PT3500 Panasonic and by that point they stopped ordering odd size parts and the quality was equal. Both were excellent bikes

Where the romance between the two ended is when Schwinn started also dealing with Giant after the exclusive dealings they had with Panasonic. I have read that may have started making for some bad blood but that was also nearing the end of the boom when the Yen and to dollar exchange rate was driving the price up.