BHBiker

After months of planned sales pitches, I have finally got the go signal from the missus to buy a Zipp 404 wheelset as long as I sell one of my bikes/wheelsets to balance the karma of my cycling universe

Now before I spend my hard earned dollars, some questions for those who are owners of either Clincher or Tubular 404s.

I am probably going to be able to get a closeout sale of 2008 tubular or clincher 404s so help me sort out some doubts and questions in my mind. I will primarily use it for category 3 or Grade C (Australian grading system) criterium racing with probably very few tune up training rides just to accustom myself pre-race prep.Questions:

My weight is 80kgs and 5 feet 10 inches tall. Yes I know I am heavy but hey...two years ago I was 97kgs so lets look at the big picture

1. Tubular or Clinchers? Please tell me your experience and why you chose Zipp tubulars or clinchers...

2. Durability Issues? I own Reynolds Assault and HED.3 carbon wheelsets and frankly....I use them in the rotation aside from the Ksyriums and Ultegra wheels and I could say the carbon wheelsets are bomb proof...I have seen that the people winning races in my crits are using Zipps but have read so many times as well both in the net and word of mouth that they are not the toughest...What is the truth for owners...please be honest.

For example, I saw this blog.

https://euphoriabeforetotalimplosion....ars-light.html

Frankly I don't know if he is hard on the wheels while racing but I have seen and heard similar reviews on QC. Care to share your views?

3. What is included in the purchase of the wheelset? When I bought the Assaults, it came with carbon brake pads, valve extenders, rim tape, spoke wrench and skewers.


4. What is deemed a good price for 2008 Zipp 404s?

Thanks in advance!

DrPete 

1. Tubulars are a pain, but because of the way Zipp bonds an alloy rim onto their wheels, the clinchers are almost a pound heavier.

2. Zipp claims they're durable enough for everyday riding. I've not tested this.

3. Purchase includes the wheels and valve extenders. Pads, skewers, spoke wrench are extra.

4. If you can find 'em at 20% off retail you're probably doing quite well... that's for new.

Zen Cyclery

If you decide to go clincher you might as well go full carbon and the means Reynolds or Edge.

tubescreamerx

edit: Nevermind, I can't think of any other all-around carbon clinchers better than Reynolds or Edge.

But to reiterate what was said above, Zipp's clinchers are significantly heavier, but that presumably also makes them more durable. You definitely do not classify as a clyde, but if you're paranoid you can always get that version (for tubulars in particular).

BHBiker

Thanks guys! Any more Zipp owners....even if its not specifically 404s...

BHBiker

bump!

Grambo

I have a pair of 404 clinchers that I ride frequently for training purposes .... no durability issues. My recollection is that they did not come with skewers or rim tape ... (I would purchase Zipp rim tape ... it works well). I would not use the valve extenders provided ... buy the inner tubes with longest stem length (I don't recall exactly what length .... I think 80mm Vredestein work).

Unless you plan on serious racing I would not buy tubulars .... not worth the hassel. Couple of years from now everything will likley be UST clincher anyway.

RedHerring

I have the 2008 clinchers. Tubulars are a pain. Your weight will not be a problem, they climb just fine, and they are durable. If you get the clinchers there is no need for different brake pads. Get a valve extender just in case you have more than one flat and have to borrow a tube. Not everybody has a tube with an 80mm valve. You can use them every day but I don't. It is more of a mind game with me that I train with Ksyriums SL and Ultegra cassette and then on fast days I use the Zipps with a DA cassette. Just thinking about it makes me go faster.

mikearena

I've met that guy. I would say he doesn't abuse his wheels, but he does expect them to be able to handle the daily rigors of racing.

Plew

When I bought mine they also came with the Skewers.

In regards to tubulars vs clinchers, I ride with tubulars, but this is probably a personal choice. They are harder and lighter, consequently being faster, but in general they are more painful to deal with, and carrying a spare tubular around all the time can be daunting.

As for durability, I have no complaints thus far.

For the price I'd go with what DrPete said, also, check out what hubs you're getting, a lot of the wheels out there that appear cheaper made be made with AC hubs instead of zipp hubs.

kensuf

I have a custom set of deep dish wheels. Basically zipp 404 rims (28 spoke) laced to tune hubs.

I went with the clinchers because the weight isn't a big concern for me (I'm 5'10", 77kg, and live in Florida which is pretty flat). I'm rolling pro3's on it and am happy as a clam.

ColorChange

1. Get Clinchers. So much more convenient. I did alu because I train on, ride in inclement weather frequently (carbon not so good in wet) with them also.
2. Indestructible. I train and race on them, over 4,000 miles, never even thought of truing them ... and I've pounded plenty of potholes and crashed repeatedly.
3. Get Bontrager X-lite tubes with 80mm stems and don't have to mess with extenders.

One of my favorite pieces of kit I own.

DrPete 

Good point... A lot of "Zipp Wheels" are Zipp rims laced to whatever. Wouldn't want to deny yourself the silly precision and speed of a Zipp hub too...

mikearena

When did this happen? Congratulations!

DrPete 

A couple left on clearance... The 404 Cross is another option if you're looking for a beefier wheel...

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Zi...08/5360034954/

Drag

That's a pretty honest statement of where I am with my gear as well. I have an 'A' bike and a 'B' bike. The 'A' bike costs multiple times more, but I know I'm equally slow on both of them.

couchweight

I am not sure if I'll go over things already posted. But for what its worth. I train full time on a set of 404 clinchers. Yes, they can be used as full time wheels. My front has around 12-14,000 miles on it. And the rear had around 8k on it before being replaced. I have a set of clinchers that are my training wheels with a power tap, couple crashes is why I had to have it replaced, and yes ANY rim would have been trashed. I also have a set of tubulars that I use as race wheels, road/crit. IF your only going to be using them for racing, go tubulars. If race/train, get clinchers. They will be plenty durable. And as for a price, anything around 1500 us for a new set is a good price I think.

patentcad

Tubulars aren't a pain for racing and limited use (like fast group rides). If you use them for those rides/races you'll have 1-2 punctures annually. I don't use the tubulars on wet roads or in the rain much, that helps. For those rides you may find the MUCH lighter weight and tubular feel really does help. I love them. My bike is a POUND lighter with the Zipp 404 tubulars vs. my clincher training hoops.

mbhakti

You have too many wheels to get zipp clinchers. Save the pound and go tubular since they are primarily race wheels anyway.

kensuf

Picked them up two weeks ago. It's been a multi-month project between me and the Aussie.

BHBiker

bump ++

Bobby Lex

I've owned a pair of Zipp 404, clincher Clydesdales for about 18 months now. I'm 5'10" and weigh 178 lbs. (80.7 kg.) My thoughts:

1. Tubular vs. Clincher> I went with clinchers because they are just much easier to use. The whole process of dealing with tubulars, including the consequences of improper installation, just isn't worth it to me. In one week of moderate dieting I can lose the 1 lb. difference between the clinchers and the tubulars.

2. Clydesdale vs. Standard> The only difference between the two kinds of wheels is the addition of 2 extra spokes per wheel. For the peace of mind that those spokes bring me, I can live with the insignificant impact of those 2 extra spokes. (I don't think anyone could ever say that they lost any race because they had 2 extra spokes on their wheels).

3. Training vs. Racing> I use mine for racing only. But since buying them, I've done almost 50 races. Some on pretty crappy roads, and they have held up fine. So they are pretty durable. The reason I don't train on them, however, is because they are so expensive.

Why would anyone train on $2000 wheels? Even PROS don't train on $2000 wheels. First, every wheel, no matter how durable, only has so many miles in it before it needs to be replaced. I'd much rather replace a $200 Mavic OP when it is worn out, than a $1000 Zipp. Second, accidents happen. Last year on a training ride my teammate's chain broke as we were both coming out of a turn. His bike swerved so violently when he went down, that when it struck my back wheel it taco'd my 32 spoke, Mavic Open Pro, instantly. I cringe when I think that if I'd been riding my Zipp's that would have been a $1000 replacement instead of a $100 replacement (only $100 because I simply bought a new rim and spokes, and re-used the hub). It's also a lot easier to service and maintain conventional wheels, than it is to work on Zipps. Since money is an issue in your household (as it is in most households) I think it would be wise for you to save your Zipps for race days and special occasions, not everyday riding.

4. Valve Stems> The Zipp valve extenders suck, because they leak air at the valve/extender interface. One solution is to use plumber's teflon tape. But these Tufo valve extenders are much better: https://www.biketiresdirect.com/ptuve...xtender/pp.htm The description explains how they work. I like the valve extenders better than long-stemmed tubes because they allow you to use any standard tube. It prevents problems like "Oh crap! I brought the wrong spare tube", or "My spare tube has a leak, can I borrow yours? Oh, I guess not, your stem is too short".

Anyway, get the Zipps. Not because of the bling. But because if you're serious about racing, they will make you faster. I guarantee you that you WILL feel the difference when you're in the 25+ mph (40+ kph) speed range.

Enjoy.

Bob

TrippleB

Posting because you bumped it, but anything I say would only be repeating the advice above.

Spookykinkajou

One pound off the wheels vs off your body is not comparable.

bigskyTi

I own a bunch of wheels and am mostly a Triathlete and recreational rider. Now my 'recreation' is usually 30-60mile rides around mostly flat but windy areas.

I used to own 404 clinchers and 303 (the 44mm) tubies. I now only own the 303's. Here is why, I also own a set of 909's for my tri bike. IMHO the 404 clinchers were the superior wheel on my tri bike where I was maintaining speed, doing little cornering and accelerating. The same wheels that felt so fast on my Tri bike felt like lead hoops on my roadie. I'd grown accustomed to the lightnes and snappiness of the 303's om my roadie.
Some claim that 303's are too flexi, but at 185lbs I was flexing the frame before the wheels. Teh latest version of the 303 with the wider rim are supposed to be even better in every department.
FWIW I train almost exclusively on tubulars because I like the feel, and I think it is stupid to spend all that money on nice wheels and ride them once a year.

IMHO go Tubular 303 with some nice Veloflex Carbons.