Kadowaki

We have a short, low key, local time trial coming up of less than 20 miles and 3 person teams.

Simple question:

is it better to take turns with short pulls at the front or run a continuously rotating paceline?

PS I'm asking for advice not advise

mikearena

I can't remember where, but I remember Allen Lim talking about this somewhere and stating that unless all the guys on the team were basically perfectly matched, then it's faster to do a single line with everyone pulling as their ability allows. I'll look for it, but don't hold your breath.

mikearena

I take that back -- you should have held your breath:

Link Here

Kadowaki

Many thanks!

Also explains why a single paceline with varied lengths of pulls works for us mortals and why the Pros rotate continuously (ie they are closely matched in ability).

Racer Ex 

Key is to rotate off before you start to feel like you need to, and to pull through at a steady rate. People will often let their ego dictate how hard and long they pull, it's a sure way of going slower.

grolby

Actually, from what I can tell, this is not currently in fashion. The fast TTT squads are doing single pacelines and dropping to the back one rider at a time. Even among the pros, there are different ability levels at TTing. In addition, a single line is, in theory, aerodynamically more favorable, and a single line makes for a better line in corners.

Check out the teams in the Giro TTT in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANyrchxRtbg

waterrockets 

Another consideration that was mentioned in a 2008 thread on the topic is that each time someone pulls off the front, your paceline looses a bike length of position on the road. So, if two teams have the same average speed for the front rider at all times, but one rotates 10 more times during the race, they will lose by 10 bike lengths.

So, if you're going to rotate a lot, make sure it's allowing you to go faster.

YMCA

I wrote these tips for TTT's a few years ago when I was coaching some squads.


1) Start easy. The first half mile or so is to get settled. Have your steadiest/experienced rider start first and roll it up to a manageable speed. Then after a few turns, the group should find what is sustainable. Usually a point where the weakest member can only roll through and off and the stronger rider pulls for 30” or so.

2) Smooth and steady. The pace should rarely fluctuate. The stronger rider should pull longer, not faster. The weaker rider should not slow the pace, rather sit on if needed.

3) Converse often. Talk to each other as you go. Don’t just expect the others to know what you are thinking.

4) Figure out what order you will take off in. That way there isn’t a jumble in the first few seconds. This does not mean it has to stay in that order throughout.

5) Do not drop your extra rider. In other words, if the 3rd person across the line counts, then make sure you have four riders still together for as long as possible. This way if there is a crash or flat, you still have 3 riders to finish.

6) Sacrifice extra riders as you get closer to the finish. If you only have to finish 3 and have 5 riders left near the end, but a couple of them are just hanging on, have those two riders do one last long pull at pace until they blow.

7) Pull off into the wind! Very important. If the wind is from the right, riders should be pulling off to the right. If it from the left, pull off to the left and make sure to leave enough room for the echelon, so nobody gets caught out in the gutter.

8) No quick movements. TTT’s are done on aerobars and have little room for error, as you are not near the bakes. So no herky-jerky stuff.

9) Nobody should be over their limit in the first half. Better to sit on if needed and then give whatever you can in the second half. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be pushing hard, but if you blow in the first couple miles and make the group slow for you, then the damage is done.

10) Read rules 2, 3, and 7 until you can recite them in your sleep.

Grumpy McTrumpy

how about hills? do you let your heavy guys pull up the hills or bring your climbers up and make the heavy guys suffer to hold on in the back?

curiouskid55

20 miles is not a short ITT or TTT.

YMCA

It's all based on a "steady" effort. Uphills should not be too much harder than flats and downhills should be taken at full speed.

Grumpy McTrumpy

my point is that steady effort means a very different thing when hills are involved, depending on rider weight.

Racer Ex 

I put the climbers up front on the hills, and the heavier guys up front on the downhills.

You'll also want to come up with a few simple signals like "OFF" when a guy drops off, and "GO" when he's back on.

Rotation direction ought to be discussed before hand, as should the order.

waterrockets 

So say you and I are in a TTT, and you pull your pace up a hill. During that time, I'm just dying, going faster than I would normally climb, and getting very little draft because we're down to, say, 18mph. We crest the hill, I come to the front, and can't pull as hard, while you're in essentially a truck draft going slower than we normally would on a descent.

Does it make sense to send a weak rider to the front on a climb so they can set a sustainable pace and everyone else can open the hell up on the descent? All the others still aren't getting much of a draft recovery on the climb, but they're stronger, so they can take it.

I guess the climber pulling could be easier for the weaker riders if he backs it off 1.5 notches.

YMCA

yes, but the riders should know each others ability and the hills would be taken at a pace that the slowest climber didn't have to go to far above threshold

then bomb the descents and ride solidly on the flats

Racer Ex 

Any small bit of draft the climber can provide will help the non climbers get up the hill, and some people climb better when they have a wheel in front of them to follow. The climber is going to have to back it off to a pace the non climber can sustain though, he/she should be eyeballing the guy on their wheel and they should be communicating about the pace.

In some situations I'd actually sit up more than normal to provide more draft for the guy behind me, or do the climb out of the saddle to poke an even bigger hole in the wind. The last 2-man TTT I did I found if I kept my head and shoulders up a bit more I'd keep my partner at my wheel on the flatter stuff, if I went into a full tuck I'd drop him.

waterrockets 

Yeah, the pace modification for the climber makes sense. Communication would be key for that to work out (a.k.a. it's tough to underestimate my climbing ability).

Cleave

Hi Kadowaki,

Three person team? Definitely NOT a continuously rotating paceline. Too few people for any recovery. Weakest rider counts to 15-20 after clearing the rider coming off the front. Strongest rider counts to 25-30. Also, practice together as much as possible.

On the separate hills question, always do a pace that the weakest rider can maintain. Dropping someone unnecessarily will just make you slower. You drop someone when they are completely blown and can't maintain a reasonable steady pace. Hopefully they are communicating that they are blown so that you don't waste time slowing down trying to keep them in.

kensuf

Gold. Thank you.

nitropowered

Climb as fast as your slowest climber. Unless of course you are at a point where you can drop the rider

YMCA

pm me and i'll give you an account you can drop the check into