n8tron

I'm a bit torn. Any insight would be helpful from owners of these two bikes.

use: I like to ride fast, but comfort is lots of miles and terrain is important. I don't need a super stiff bike and I don't race. Really a good balance between the two is important...

Lynskey Cooper
-lighter but more expensive
-won't rust, will last forever
-will probably be very comfortable AND fast
-i love the look of titanium but am not hugely fond of shaped tubes

Gunnar Roadie
-heavier but cheaper
-will last forever but could rust
-more comfort over performance?
-i can customize the colors, but i'm not fond of the logos
-made very close to where I grew up, so some nostalgia there.

Getting fit/test riding either of these is complicated as there are no convenient dealers near me... both have sizes though that should fit me just fine.

eofelis 

My SO has two Roadies. One a triple, one a double. He's ridden a lot of different bikes and he thinks that a Roadie is the best value out there. He used to have a Litespeed Classic (ti) but he sold it and has the Roadie instead.

We also have other Gunnars in the herd:
He has two Rockhounds (one mtn, one commuter)
I have a Rockhound and a Sport.

We like Gunnars! All six of them!

Fat Boy

I'm a bit of a Waterford/Gunnar shill, so take that into account.

First and foremost. They're both great bike by great companies. I don't see how you could go wrong with either.

1. The Roadie is 0.7 pounds heavier in a 56cm frame. I don't know how much of a issue that is for you. Some people call that massive and some call that nothing, but that's the number, regardless.

2. The Roadie has pretty aggressive geometry, so I would actually say that it's more geared towards performance / quicker handling than the Cooper. The reason I say this is because of the steeper head and seat tube, less trail and a much shorter head tube (13mm). The Gunnar Sport is their 'comfort' road frame.

3. I'm with you on the Gunnar logo thing. You can mix and match colors that mute the 'GUNNAR' to some extent. You might look into that.

4. Both are going to ride very nice. They're both made with very high quality tubesets from people who know what they're doing.

In the end, it'll come to a coin-flip. Both good bikes and you can't go wrong with either.

late

A Gunnar is the 'bargain' version of Waterford. You can upgrade to Waterford and get your choice of lettering styles. But I'm pretty sure that if you upgraded the Gunnar to a Waterford paint job they would include a different style of lettering.

Btw, I have a Gunnar Sport, and love it. If you go steel, treat it with FrameSaver before you build it up.

You need to decide whether you want a sport or performance geometry, but after that.... either will be fine.

n8tron

great tips/info/insight so far guys, thanks!

a bit more of where I'm coming from... I'm riding a BMC Streetfire currently, which has the same ST and HT angles as the Roadie. I'm fine with this and its really a good angle for me. I like the aggressive stance of my streetfire. What I DON'T like is how uncomfortable it its. it feels brittle over bumps and doesn't do well on 70+mile rides. Hence me looking into these two bikes.

My stance on weight. I looked up a few climbs that I like to do and through them through analytical cycling's algo for weight on a climb. Turns out a 2lbs lighter bike would give me less than a 1% decrease in time. And since I don't really care about time, well... I don't really care about a heavy frame if it rides better. That being said, both of these builds would actually come in as lighter than my streetfire, because of the group upgrade as well as much lighter wheels that I would get.

Question for you Waterford/Gunnar guys. Have you ever been to the factory? I'm going home for the holidays and if I can spare a few hours have thought about heading over there. Do they welcome visitors or is it not that kind of place?

riff

I have a Litespeed Ghisallo, and a Lemond Croix de Fer - which is made with the same true temper OX platinum steel as the Gunnar. Both have a beautiful ride, great for long distances. My Ti bike is significantly lighter, but with different groups, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. You really can't go wrong with either the Lynskey or the Gunnar. If you're building from scratch, you will get more bang for the buck from lightweight wheels, as opposed to a few grams difference between frames anyway.

If you're worried about corrosion, perhaps the Ti bike may have an edge, but there are precautions you can take to protect the steel too.

Let us know what you get & post some pics!

Fat Boy

Yep, been there. It's really nothing special. It's a little machine shop in a sleepy little Milwaukee 'burb. They got a bunch of guys (and at least one gal!) in the back welding and brazing frames. Nothing exotic, but there's everything they need to do what they're doing. I called a couple hours before showing up. They were really nice and have me and some friends the nickel tour. Richard and Mark are the owners and they are just a couple goofy bike guys. You can really tell they love their job.

It's hard to visit the place and not want to own a little of what they make.

mudhead

For $40 Gunnar will not apply the stickers. Got that in an email response when I inquired about ordering a Roadie without the "roadie" decal.

n8tron

Do they have bikes on display there or any available to test ride? I just looked and saw that their in house fit is $200... whew...can't really add that expense since I *pretty much* know what size I am. I wonder if I should bother stopping by...


That's interesting... So not just the "roadie" but the Gunnar decal as well? Weird that they make you pay for not doing something, though I understand that they are losing a little bit of marketing. I feel like logos are a sensitive topic with makers. I can actually by very brand-proud, but even so, I simply don't like logos...

teterider

I just went to the Gunnar website to check out the roadie, and immediately upon seeing the picture I said "whoa - that is steep". Then I looked at the geo table to confirm, and yes, basically most common sizing the stock geometry is really steep, made for those who like twitchy handling and have very short femurs. Look at the super common 54 and 56 sizes with 74.5 and 73.5 seat tube angles. Even the Ritchey 45mm "way-back" seatpost wouldn't be enough for me on that. The 580 and 600 sizes are better, but still twitchy which is a trait many like. (just don't descend the north side of the Galibier on it).

Now of course, if it works for you then great and they always have the custom geometry option.

oooh, I like the Lynskey and the geometry is quite good too. You will never regret Ti, except years down the road when you get the new bike bug and your significant other makes a stink that you said the Ti bike would last forever. The good thing is wives generally only notice a frame change, so keep the perfect condition Lynskey frame and in 2015 change to 14 speed electronic Record with carbon wheels and she'll never know. Well, I have the feeling Eofelis would know.

n8tron

I've definitely looked long and hard at the geometries... My streetfire has the same 73.5 angles for HT and ST... Though I'm still a bit in between concerning either the size 56 or 58... Though by the looks of the numbers the either size would may fit better than the Cooper which has a wider size range right where I fit inbetween the two.

Fat Boy

The Roadie definitely has race geometry. You never hear anyone complaining that they are unstable, though. Curious, perhaps, but I've never heard a single person complain about the handling of a Paramount, Waterford or Gunnar. Usually, it's just the opposite. While the HT and ST angles are tight, they also run a relatively low bottom bracket and this is also a big player in terms of stability, so that's probably at least part of how they balance it out.

n8tron, if you're between sizes, then you can choose the smaller frame for a more aggressive fit or the larger one for a less aggressive fit. It kind of depends what your back will allow. The saddle to bar measurement will ultimately be dictated by the stem. The different frame sizes will dictate saddle to bar drop.

tkehler

Don't anyone take this the wrong way, but I really wonder why we keep saying stuff about steel rusting?

When was the last time anyone of us saw a high quality bike -- like, e.g., a Gunnar or a Waterford -- rusty from neglect? It's just unlikely. And besides you can get the interior of the tubes treated with an non-expensive spray by Gunnar. Apart from that, it's a matter of not leaving it out in the weather, or maybe just giving it a quick wipe-down with a cloth if you've been riding a downpour, no?

Both are good. I have three ti bikes and like them, but for the kind of riding that you (and I) do, I can't believe we'd notice a difference between steel and ti. (I've had steel bikes.) The key is the geometry, and the stiffness of the tubing. I'd probably go Gunnar but that's me.

StanSeven

Exactly. I've got an 18 year old Waterford, a Seven Ti that's painted, and a Cervelo CF. My maintenance is simpley mechanical to keep the bikes running smooth and fast. There's absolutely no signs of rust on the steel frame. All three look good. In fact the Waterford might look the best except for some minor dings.

Biker395 

Probably not relevant for most people, but rust is a steel frame issue for some of us.

I ride along the beach to and from work every day. I even pass by a spot where samples are laid out for corrosion testing! Trust me ... in that environment, rust and corrosion is a very real factor in considering whether to go steel, Al, carbon, or Ti.

schnee

The only graphics they demand on their bikes are the headtube badge, chainstay 'Made in America' logo, and seat tube little Gunnar dog image.

Here's my stolen-last-year Crosshairs set up for road duty.

fogrider

interesting that you would consider these two bikes...they are so different. I think of gunner as an expensive nice bike if you want steel. Lynskey is a custom high end ride. seems to me that if you really want a steel bike, there are still many to choose from. but to pick between a steel or ti ride, seems like it really depends on you riding both then decide.

I can't image what riding on the beach everyday would do to the bike...sand must get into the chain/gears and bearings.

Yangster

Lynskey cooper is my choice. Its really a nice ride and can go fast too. Feel the power when i pound on it and at the same time its really a comfortable ride.

late

Custom for the win!

All Waterfords are custom, and the price really isn't much more than the Gunnar. There are also some good Ti frames that do custom like this...

www.habcycles.com

I'd also suggest a chainstay of 420.

Biker395 

It gets everywhere. What it comes down to is that you just have to accept that some parts are going to wear out or rust, and will need frequent replacement. I replaced just about everything on my steel frame commuter, and then the rust on the frame got so out of hand, I had to give up the ghost on that too. I'd spend $ for a bike with all stainless steel nuts and bolts. I actually replaced the stem bolts with Ti ones ... not for weight savings ... for corrosion resistance.

It's a serious issue if you live or ride very near the coast on a regular basis. Not so much if you live inland a bit.

n8tron

They are pretty similar in price, not to far off in geometry, and about the same price. Only major difference is the material... I'm looking at the cheaper Cooper, not the more expensive or custom Lynskeys.


A bunch of opinions so far on the rust... I do live on the coast and I do have a steel commuter that has a little bit of rust showing here and there sooner than I thought it would. I thought it was because of a pretty cheap powdercoat and lack of clear coat. I would imagine the Gunnar to hold up much better because of the better paint. Also my commuter is more of a tool to get the job done and I hate to say I don't take care of it as much as I do my road bike.

big john

The Gunnar lists for $800 for the frame and the Lynskey is $1300. I think the cheapest Waterford is about $1800.
I think my Gunnar is a great frame but it does chip and scratch which ti won't do.
Mine has almost 20K miles on it now.

schnee

My Gunnar's paint job looked gorgeous but it was pretty susceptible to chipping.

I'd imagine a powerdercoat would be a lot more durable.

Farby

another vote for ti. love the ride of my lynskey.

n8tron

question for you Lynskey Cooper owners... I've been trying to figure out if the downtube starts as a diamond shape at the ends and becomes round in the middle, or if the entire tube is a diamond shape...

can anyone confirm?