Buzzatronic

I guess I've been pretty lucky so far as I haven't had any significant issues with drivers since I started commuting back in Feb. This morning however, I go the honk, roll down window and yell at the cyclist routine. While I'm positive I was in the right legally (I've double checked WA state law on bikes on sidewalks and crosswalks), I can almost see why the guy wasn't happy. Still doesn't give him the right to slow down beside me, roll down his window and yell menacingly at me while driving a 2 ton weapon right next to me at 15mph.

Here's the situation, you guys tell me what I can do better. First a diagram of the area:



1. Dedicated MUP. I cross in the crosswalk with peds and other bikes
2. I take a right onto the sidewalk
3. I take it slow on the sidewalk (under 10mph) because I don't like being there in the first place
4. I cross at the cross walk and take a left into the bike lane.

The guy that took issue with me was coming towards me as I crossed the crosswalk in step 3. He honked because he had to slow down more for his right turn as I made my way through the crosswalk. As I got into the bike lane and he turned in behind me, he rolled down his window and started yelling "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!" while waiving his fist at me.

Now the reason I get on the sidewalk at this point is because I need to make a quick left at step 4. I've gone on the street a few times for this but it's not a comfortable feeling being on that road because drivers get a bit crazy here. They've just come off the freeway and hate waiting for that left turn.

So any ideas on what I could change here? Should I just apply rule 5 and get on the road for my left turn or am I better off on the sidewalk for this short section?

Vlaam4ever

I cant really tell if you are on the road or MUP for Parts 2-4 as it is covered by the trees. If it were me, I'd take a right, onto the driving lane at #1 get into the left lane and turn into #4. I hate going agains the grain, especially near an intersection. Divers have so many distractions that they really may not see a salmon in the road.

Spld cyclist

I don't see what you could have done differently (leaving aside the question of whether you should ride on the road or sidewalk). Technically, do you need to walk when you're in the crosswalk? If you did so, he would have had to wait longer.

PennyTheDog

That seems reasonable to me. No matter what you do, there's a driver somewhere who would get mad about it.

Dwayne

I don't know what I would do differently in your case, I would probably do the same thing that you do. I can understand not wanting to make a left turn from the road. Would the guy have been bent out of shape if you had continued straight instead of turning left onto the bike lane? I think you just came across one of the many people who are angry at the world and constantly look for "problems" they can "solve" (there's a German word that fits well, streitsüchtig, and I can't think of a good translation, but it describes people who enjoy being argumentative).

megalowmatt

That's a tough one. Applying rule 5 would mean you may potentially be stuck out in the open in that left hand turn lane waiting for a chance to go if there's a lot of traffic. I don't like that kind of situation because drivers aren't always expecting a cyclist to be there.

The only way to avoid any kind of altercation in the future is to do what you're doing and wait until there's no cars coming towards you as you cross the intersection before #4.

I can see how from the driver's perspective that what you did may have seemed odd but you need to do what is the safest solution for you given the situation.

Nakedbabytoes

I used to commute by bike and I think people(drivers) have the most issue with bikers who decide to be a "pedestrian" when it is most convienient and then a "vehicle" when it is the most convienient. I don't think you should choose to use crosswalks and sidewalks in some cases(which would usually be opposite the vehicle signal) and then in the next street/light use the vehicle signal. Decide and stick with it.

I came to that conclusion not by my own accord, but from a cop who watched me be a pedestrian on one block and a vehicle on the other. He stopped me and said "You can't choose like that, you are either one or the other. It makes everyone safer to have "expected" behavior." And he was right. What if runners did that? Or motorcycles? Or wheelchair bound people? Just because bikes CAN go on sidewalks AND streets, doesn't mean that they should in all circumstances.

You should have either been a pedestrian in all circumstances OR a vehicle in all circumstances, I think that is what the dude was mad at you for. Decide.

Buzzatronic

In Washington state bikes are expected to ride in the crosswalks, yielding to peds of course.

Buzzatronic

Yeah I agree, problem is in Washington state much of the bike access is based on the assumption that bikes will ride in the crosswalk and freely move between the two. The thing I specifically won't do is use the crosswalk to get by a red light when I was in the road when the light turned. However, if I'm on the sidewalk it's expected that I will use the crosswalk as if I were a ped and it's also expected that there are times where I'll move back into the road from the crosswalk.

It's weird around here and quite honestly the lack of consistency makes it more dangerous in my opinion. I think you're right though, drivers get made when bikes cherry pick between being a vehicle and a pedestrian when the driver thinks it gives the bike an unfair advantage.

Ozonation

I agree that you should - ideally - pick to be either a pedestrian or a vehicle. But from a practical point of view, I'd hate to turn left from the main road onto the bike lane at [4] though: I can envision all sorts of nasty situations from drivers not paying attention, or even if you make a mistake in judgment one day because you're tired, distracted, etc.

Could you split the difference? Assuming the sidewalk is not heavily traversed by pedestrians, ride on the sidewalk at you do, but then dismount, cross the crosswalk at [3]/[4], and then resume cycling at [4]. It seems that it's not so much the sidewalk itself, but how you get from one side to the other that is the real issue. If you're dismounted and then walking across, it's pretty obvious you're using the crosswalk as a pedestrian.

droy45

You are probably the only one out there on a bike and I don't see anything wrong with what you did. It is the safest route and method to take. If there were hundreds of bikes around the speeding cars then yes certain rules would have to be followed but you can walk a bike anywhere you want like a pedestrian as far as I know.

InOmaha

They were likely late for something and taking it out on you. The route doesn't seem unreasonable.

There is a light down the street from where I get on a major road. The city put it in over a year ago, but set it to change infrequently. So it's not uncommon for cars waiting there to turn left on red when the traffic clears. Using the crosswalks and the sidewalk for a block is probably the least offensive traffic manuever I'd see on any given day.

Medic Zero

+1

I almost exclusively use the road, but there are a couple of places on a couple of my regular routes that I'll hop onto the sidewalk for half a block or use a crosswalk to cross a street because it makes things a lot easier or safer. Waiting in the middle of an intersection for an endless line of cars to pass and then having to try and dash through to make my left turn as light changes on me isn't as safe or pleasant as hopping up on the sidewalk half a block before I get there and going through the crosswalk as soon as the light turns green.

I think what you are doing is totally acceptable if you aren't comfortable with trying to merge into traffic that just exited the freeway in order to immediately try and get over into the left lane to make a left turn. Makes sense to me. That's a difficult situation, unfortunately some drivers are going to be jerks, best to just try and "let it roll off your back", although that is easier said than done sometimes.

BlankTim

It's difficult to tell in the photo what the street designers intended here. Are you sure it's MUP all the way through part 1? It also looks like a bike lane in the street. Assuming it's MUP and not sidewalk through step 1, the crosswalk is your "permitted space"; the MUP dumps into the crosswalk, where else are you supposed to go?

We have several intersections that are set up the same way here in FoCo, and I would assume that the south side is the continued MUP, it just hasn't been fully upgraded. Since there is no MUP, sidewalk, or bikelane going west from the end of step 1, I think you're pretty much doing the only reasonable thing you can do.

In short, I'd do that intersection the same way you do.

Nakedbabytoes

Yup, the problem with absolutes is there is no "absolutely in every situation". There is black and white obvious stuff and then there is safety trumping cookie cutter rules. I don't have any issue with what you did, in fact what you did WAS safer than doing it completely as a biker OR a pedestrian. And those situations, you have to use your head in them. My situation was a similar one, I decided that in one area it was safer to be in the crosswalk and sidewalk area(a busy street crossing) and the block after, I got back out into the street to ride. Something I had done 1000x before and did after that even. I guess I would rather get a ticket than be dead, KWiM?

jerseyJim

I think it is safest to transition from the MUP to the road and VC it through this series of intersections. I don't like getting off the MUP at the corner marked with the 1, I want to have control of the lane as I enter that intersection so I would do it at the intersection prior or whatever point prior that would be safest.

I agree with the posters that assert that it is best to be consistent. I find that when I act like a vehicle, drivers may not like it because I am in their way, but they react predictably and respond more safely and consistently to my presence in the roadway.

This intersection may be dicey no matter what line you take through, but I think it is safest to control the lanes and conduct yourself like a vehicle.

Cyril 

Driver honked at you?
You passed the initiation.
Congratulations!
You are a full fledged commuter and member in good standing.

Buzzatronic

Yep it's most certainly a MUP that feeds ped/bike traffic directly into the crosswalk. It does this multiple times in this section across multiple streets. The trail I'm on is called the "520 Bike Trail", here's a google link:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=520+b...gl=us&t=h&z=17

You are forced into the crosswalk on 51st, 40th and 148th Ave.

This type of situation is quite common around here it seems. We even have bike lanes that feed ONTO a sidewalk and then back onto a road again for some reason. Here is a street view example of one of these really close to where I work:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=520+b...65.31,,0,13.72

imi

Hope I've understood, but to get to "4" without making a left, I would turn right before the crosswalk at "1", ride the hard shoulder and stop opposite the turn, wait for a gap in the traffic and cross when safe.

If there was constant heavy traffic, your solution is fine.

Buzzatronic

That requires that I jump down off the curb, speed across a 4 lanes (plus turning lane) and avoid people making a left turn out of #4 who likely won't notice that I'm waiting on the sidewalk for a gap to enter the roadway. That option seems more dangerous than just being in the road the whole time.

imi

Just edited my post for the situation where there is a lot of traffic. When I said "cross when safe", I meant "safe"!

cycle_maven

1) Be glad you live in Seattle and you actually have MUP's to ride on.
2) People get angry for all sorts of reasons. Especially in cars.
3) I wouldn't do anything any different, except maybe dismount at the intersection between 3 and 4 and walk it across. Just feels a bit wrong to do pedestrian stuff while on wheels while cars are coming. On a sidewalk, going slow and being very *very* careful, since drivers don't know what you're going to do even if they see you.

Vlaam4ever

I stand corrected, I just looked at the google view you posted. you did the safest thing possible. I see the walkway and there is plenty of room to ride. sometime you just have to be right and get yelled at...

JoeyBike

You should do what feels safest to you and let them honk and yell.

Bluish Green

+1 on both...