vrkirk

There have been many articles on all the things I'm about to say but a lot of them are outdated/I just wanted some more personal advice from the forum community.

Im looking into building up my first touring bike. I've ridden both road bikes and mtb and am trying to figure out exactly whats going to be the best fit for me. Im currently living abroad, so have only been able to do internet research instead of test ride, but plan to buy the bike when I get home at the holidays.

I want a bike I can use as a commuter in all three seasons with michigans winters, as well as a bike I can take on loaded touring.

As of right now I have narrowed my frame choices down to either the Trek 520 disc or the Salsa Vaya 2

I want to build up the bike with a Sram drivetrain and am trying to decide between x/9 or Rival Wifli with bb7 brakes and am leaning towards using integrated shifters instead of bar-ends, even though a lot of research has persuaded me for the reliability of the bar-ends. Im also trying to keep the build around 2k for price tag.

I just wanted to get some opinion on the two bike builds or see if anyone has a better option and what your thoughts on the drive train are?

Thanks in advance

gerryl

I would go with the Salsa for the simple reason that it can accomodate larger tires than the Trek. As far as drive train goes, I would go with whatever is cheaper.

vrkirk

I am leaning towards the vaya, my only concern is the more relaxed geometry, and as for price they are pretty close so i just wanted to hear some experience with wifli vs mtb setup for gearing under load. But that is a good point about the tires! thank you

psy

Salsa, for the chili pepper emblem alone wins.

bradtx

vrkirk, I like the Trek's geometry better. The Salsa has a top tube that's longer than the Trek's for any given size range. That would be fine for a flat/trekking bar set-up, but that's just me. My touring bikes have 32 and 37 mm tires currently mounted and the one with 32 mm tires had 35 mm tires. That seems a pretty good range of tire sizes for a touring bike on pavement and a slight nod to the 37 mm tires for something less prepared than a groomed trail.

Keep us updated for whichever frame you build.

Brad

jimc101

No experience with the Trek, but have had a Salsa Vaya for a few years now (2010 Rootbeer color), for the gearing, I have mine setup with a Shimano 10 speed 50/34 & Sram 11-32 cassette, it will go up most things with that gearing if only slowly, if building again, would look at a triple on the front, sticking with the 11-32 on the back, preferably 11 speed (possibly Campag for the shifters), the FD is the key thing if looking at a WiFLi setup VS MTB as a mountain FD may not play well with road shifters (I'll leave it to you to research that). For brakes, I have a mix of Shimano CX77 F & R505 R, if buying today, would look at Shimano hydraulic 105 (R685) as an option, although would wait till the came down in price first.

vrkirk

brad Im thinking if i did go with the vaya i would put a little more of an aggressive stem on it to help with the sloping top tube. Something along the lines of the pro moto 2 from salsa instead of the stock guide. I will admit the salsa has a lot more character! As for the gearing I'm really looking to stay away from the triple chainring, I don't plan on doing heavy loaded touring up the side of a mountain, (this might change later on) so I was hoping to see if there was a big difference anyone felt between a fully loaded bike with wifi or a mtb rear?

vrkirk

Jim when I was researching this I was also looking at the Fargo (a little out of my price range and beefier than i need) which uses the X9 rear and X7 front with apex shifters on the stock build?

p nut

I'd think the relaxed geo would suit you better for commutes and tours. That would be a plus in my book. Larger tire clearance is definite plus, especially if you're using fenders. I'd go Vaya.

Also check out the REI offering, Novara Safari. Tour-ready, off-road capable, immense tire clearance and half the price.

fietsbob

Trek has a dealer network , Salsa (a Wholly owned QBP Brand) does not
QBP has a limited time frame warrantee, tocover materials and workmanship
Trek it's the lifetime of the 1st owner..

vrkirk

Thats an interesting point i hadn't really thought about it that way, from what I've read through reviews salsa has great craftsmanship like trek. I know the 520 is made overseas, but is the vaya the same?

fietsbob

Yup.. Taiwan (bike makers for the globe, most familiar Brands are contract built there, these Days. )

vrkirk

fair point... i had assumed so but wishful thinking!

fietsbob

Frames can be built by individuals , but not at a price competitive with the Imports .

vrkirk

I had looked at the co motion touring frames for a hot second before i realized they were well out of my budget...

seeker333

This is a simple choice - only the Vaya is sold as a frameset that you can customize. You'd have to purchase the 520D as a complete already-built bike. The Surly Disc Trucker (DT) can be purchased as a frameset, and is potentially the least expensive option of the three models if you can DIY and are a clever parts shopper.

Bradtx makes a good point - pick the frame that fits you best. This can be a difficult choice with or without the bike available for test ride. You can get some indication of a match between your preferred riding posture and the frame dimensions from website geometry tables. In my case, I prefer a more upright posture, which is not uncommon for touring. I look first to see if the geometry table lists reach and stack dimensions. For the 520D, Vaya and DT frames in the ~54-57cm size, the R/S figures are 38/59, 42/61 and 37-39/57-59 (rounded to nearest cm) respectively. In the case of 520D and Vaya I have only one frame size choice based on my physical size and R/S preference, whereas with DT I have two choices (54 or 56). The LHT/DT are offered in more (9) frame sizes versus 520D (6) and Vaya (5).

520 Disc - Trek Bicycle

Vaya 3 | Bikes | Salsa Cycles

Disc Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes

I prefer a short reach and long stack, ideally something like 36/66 (for a drop bar). This is difficult to achieve from a std frame designed for drop bars (frames designed for flatish/mtb bars have longer R and S). I could put a flat bar on a road frame with a long R, that would be about right - like the Vaya. Except I prefer drop bars and the road frame/flat bar combo often looks odd. I ended up with a 56cm Surly DT with an 8cm stem and 8cm steerer+spacers.

OP, all these frames are made in Taiwan. The only frames Trek makes in USA are the top CF frames (only 0.6% of their production). These are the frames made with their best technology to produce high strength, low-void CF tubes. Trek doesn't want China to steal their intellectual property, so they safeguard it by making the Madone/Emonda in USA only. Salsa and Surly are QBP-owned companies. All their frames are produced in Taiwan, in a single factory which has an excellent reputation - Maxway. My guess is the Vaya and Trucker are made of the same 4130 steel by the same people on the same jigs, with different finish and decals. With this information, it makes it difficult for me to purchase a Vaya frameset for $700 over a Trucker frameset for $470. Actually, internet sellers sometimes undercut QBP's mandated price - I got my Disc Trucker frameset for $356 shipped!

Maxway also makes many name-brand framesets, including Thorn Cycles' Nomad and Raven frames.

https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/

https://www.maxway.com.tw/list/bicycl...nufacturer.htm

Component-wise I haven't a brand preference between Shimano and Sram (or Campy). Avid BB7 (and their SD7 rim brakes) are excellent performers and good values. Thomson makes excellent seatposts. I have Campy brifters on my Disc Trucker activating Shimano LX/XT derailleurs - there is a nearly infinite combination of components that can be combined into a bike suitable for touring and commuting.

Depending on your height/shoe size/pannier preference, make sure you have adequate heel clearance (improved odds with longer chainstay length). When you get ready to build, have a LBS press in the headset and mount the BB/crankarm, then you can do the rest of the bike build with common hand tools. If you build your own wheels you'll need a spoke wrench and a truing stand really makes it easier to see/gauge progress. If you have to choose between cranksets+cassettes, pick the combination that gives you the lowest gear range for loaded climbing ease. MTB components are often used to build touring bikes, and they are usually still geared high enough for commuting. Learn about road/mtb/brand drivetrain compatibilities before you buy.

It is fine to use brifters on a touring build - they are as reliable as any other shifter. Touring bikes are often sold with bar-end shifters primarily for the simple reason that they save Trek/Surly/etc $50-$150 in the total cost of the bike - thus more profit and sales volume. Brifters are probably easier and safer to use than bar-ends. Bar-ends have an advantage in that they have greater compatibilty in mixing road and mtb components. Mechanically-disinclined users prefer bar-ends because they can utilize friction-shifting-mode instead of actually solving a problem.

vrkirk

seeker, thank you very much that all really helped. As of right now i think I'm going to go with the vaya 2 with a sram rival wifli rear with the pro moto 2 stem and a b17 saddle with cascadia fenders. Keeping the stock wheels and BB7's on for discs.

Since I'm going to be building it in the winter months, has anyone had good luck with conti top contact winter or nordic spike tires on snow/ice?

Also just wondering about personal experiences with vaya 2's handling under full load? Ive read quite a bit on pathlesspedaled about it and other forums but still nice to get the two sense.

vrkirk

After doing some more research I've realized 2 things

i don't think I can get the gearing I want for loaded touring with the wifli system unless I'm going ultra light.

and 2 I think I have quite a bit more in the bike funds than I orignally thought...

so so here's my proposal: would I be able to build up the vaya with an xx drive train with f and r deraillers and a 11-36 cassette with the long rear and use sram red shifters on the drop bars?

headloss 

Both are great bikes. If I was shopping for a new touring bike I would have a difficult time choosing between them. In the end, I'd probably go with a Vaya frame and just build it up how I want. I have a 520, but the geometry has changed a bit so I can't really weigh in on the current model as I haven't had a chance to test ride one. I like the Vaya, it's very versatile. Vaya might edge out for gravel riding while the 520 would edge out for a road group ride... edge out, it's a marginal difference.

meyers66

Hello,
I live in Taiwan and I'm shopping for a steel frame road bike around 58cm. Do you have any suggestions on how to see Surly, Salsa, Maxway bikes in a retail store here? Please advise. TIA

seeker333

I don't think you will find these bikes built-up in a single store anywhere in the world.

Surly and Salsa bikes are available in many LBSs in USA. Surly and Salsa framesets may be ordered from these same retailers.

I have no info on bike availability in Taiwan. Try contacting Maxway directly and make your inquiries to them - maybe they'll sell you a frameset.

judes21

Try both of them out and get fitted properly. I have used a Trek 520 (1993) for loaded touring and have just bought a Salsa Vaya which I had fitted to accommodate my current needs on the hilly island where I live. 22/32/44 crank. Schwalbe marathons 1.5 inches. Traded SIS for Bar ends and am very pleased I did. Upgraded BR7s to TRP disc brakes. Just LOVE this bike. Wonderful attention to detail. Rides like a dream. I feel as though I am an integral part of the bike!!

meyers66

Hello Seeker,
Thanks for the comments. Communicating with the shops in Taichung isn't easy. I think there are contracts that lock out consumers buying bikes from the factories. (Just my opinion.) I've sent 2 emails to Maxway through their site. No response.

krobinson103

Seen the 520 'in the metal' and I have to say I'm impressed. If I didn't already have my custom built Soma Double cross I'd get a 520 tomorrow.

mdilthey

Amen!