Capt Overpacker

Hello,

I'm not new to cycling. But I am new to carrying more than a handlebar/trunk bag combo. Someone in my club is organizing an overnight ride with 50 miles each way. This is completely new to me. I haven't camped since I was a kid in the 1970's. A week of camping does not appeal to me. But I'm open to trying a simple overnighter. Perhaps it'll ignite something in my sense of adventure. I'm shopping to gear up for this ride. I'm partial to Arkel products since I already have their TailRider and handlebar bags. I like their Dolphin bags. But I have some concerns:

My Trek CrossRip has 43.5-cm chainstays (1-cm longer the Surly Crosscheck), 175mm cranks and I wear size 48 shoes. So I'm slightly concerned about heel strike if I go right for a large bag. An easy solution, I think, would be to buy the smaller bag (32L) which can be used on the front of the bike if I eventually opt to increase my load and do longer touring (I do not have a front rack today). But is 32L (1950 cu-in) enough to carry camping gear, food and clothes?

I plan to carry a tent (2-person... large enough for my panniers and me... maybe my wife someday ), sleeping bag, sleeping pad, small pillow, evening attire for hanging around the camp fire (could be a little cold), clean shorts/jersey/socks for return trip, toiletries, walking shoes, eating utensils, and something else I'm forgetting at the moment. I don't plan to cook or bring cooking supplies... baby steps. But I do need to bring food since there's nothing available at our destination. I'll think of something prepackaged and non-perishable.

Compared to you true touring pros, I'm sure I'm forgetting something and/or overthinking this. But am I doing okay for an overnighter? I appreciate your insight regarding appropriate panniers for this trip short trip.

Scott

hueyhoolihan

i would forget the pillow, evening attire, walking shoes.

take 1 pair of shorts, 1 jersey, 1 pair of socks, one pair of walkable biking shoes, toiletries, soap, razor, deodorant, toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, aspirin or ibuprofen. pick up food along the way. then get the smaller bags and you can forget about foot clearance. if you get cold at night around the campfire, get the sleeping bag out and wrap yourself up in it. you may want a light set (uppers and lowers) underwear depending on the weather, gloves. you have to stay warm enough to ride. if wet weather is to be encountered a gortex parka shell and over pants too. or as an alternative you can just find shelter and wait it out. you should be able to get all that in two front panniers (but on the back) a handlebar and/or toptube bag and on top of the rear rack.

that's what i would do. good luck.

you can wash everything that's dirty at a laundamat and stand around in your long underwear or goretex over pants.

prathmann

Should be fine. I use panniers that are nominally about 40 L (Nashbar Waterproof), but that lets me put everything inside and leave the top of the rack free. Smaller panniers would work fine (whether for S24O or for a week or more) if some items (sleeping bag, tent, or pad) were put on top of the rack.

mm718

I fit everything in just rear 40 liter Ortliebs. This would include a food bag, stove, pot, tools/parts, an extra jersey, base layer, sleep shorts, comfy evening shirt, camp towel, toiletries, sleeping mat, sleeping bag, pillow. The tent goes on the back rack in a dry bag (15 liters) with a little extra room for extra storage if I need it. I think you'd do fine with 32 liters if you don't go overboard with the clothes.

Two tips if you are going for comfort. People vary a great deal on this but I love a real stuffed pillow. You might also do OK with a lightweight inflatable pillow or if you are really not picky just shove your clothes in a stuff sack (lumpy). Also, a cotton shirt is heaven in the evenings after wearing a synthetic jersey all day long.

Doug64

My wife spent 74 days riding across the U.S., and several shorter tours using her front panniers on her rear rack. I'm sure you can do an overnighter with them. She carried her camping gear on top of the rear rack: sleeping bag, Thermarest, stuffable pillow,and running shoes.

A word of caution: Bike touring is addictive!

Pair of Ortlieb Packer Plus front panniers.


Good luck, and have fun!

Hangtownmatt

I think you should reconsider this. The ability to boil water for coffee, tea, hot chocolate, ramen noodles, etc. could make a big difference. Especially if it's cold.

Matt

Capt Overpacker

Thanks for your input, everyone! I'm gathering up a list of items I need to get and making a plan. I will bring a pillow, likely a compact one. I discovered compression sacks today. So I think I can squeeze one onto the load. I do want to bring some shoes. I already wear walkable cycling shoes. But I think I'll want to get out of them after the ride. I'll at least bring slippers. That's just me. The ride leader is bringing a camp stove and has offered to share. I'll explain in a sec.

I'm still researching whether a larger bag, such as the Dolphin 48 (liters), will fit without my heel striking it. Although the Dolphin 32 (liters) will work, I may want my initial purchase to be the largest bag I can use so I don't find myself wanting more too soon. Then again, starting with the 32s and then needing more could influence me to buy the 48s soon enough to have a matching set.

Back to the ride leader, he's organizing the ride as an "Intro to Bicycle Touring." He and I are not aware of any touring cyclists in our immediate area. I'm sure they're here. They just don't ride with us. He hopes to expose our club's riders to a small dose of the touring experience to see if he can form a group of riders who tour regularly in this region. He's open to riders bringing a SAG vehicle to carry gear, particularly useful for those who are not equipped to carry their own gear. It's not touring in its purist form. But it's a start. He's bringing at least one additional rider with touring experience from out of town. The three of us, at the very least, will ride with our loads even if there is a SAG vehicle. He WANTS others to use his stove and other camping equipment so that we may get the bug. He's assuming a mentor role for us. I'm happy to try different products before I commit to a purchase.

I hope to learn a lot from them, including equipment selection, and then see where it goes from there. If I were touring by car, I'm sure I could find whatever's at the local outdoor shop and make a good run at camping. But packing a bike for weight and efficiency is a learned art, I think. So I'll just experience the weekend with their help and then make my moves later.

Thanks Again,

Scott

Doug64

It will be close, but I think you may be able to use the larger panniers without heel strike.

I assumed a lot, but here is the rationale:
I wear a size ten or 44 shoe. Your 48 shoes are about a size 13. A size 13 is very close to an inch longer than a size 10.

My chainstay is 415 mm not quite an inch shorter than yours. It might work. There is often a little fore and aft flexibility in pannier mounts. Can you borrow a set of larger rear panniers from your your tour leader to try out?

It sounds like a great opportunity, and it seems like you've thought things through really well.

mev

When I was in CO, I did something like that for our local cycle touring group. Each year, I would organize a "three day ride", where we'd cycle on Friday/Saturday/Sunday. Sometimes it was out and back [staying same place for Friday and Saturday nights] and sometimes it was a loop with different place each night. We stayed in variety of places ranging from campgrounds to a large B&B. The club continued to do some variation of these after I moved away - at least for next years.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the exact definitions of purity here. Sometimes having a SAG vehicle can be nice, either in carrying less or enabling someone to join the trip as SAG driver that wouldn't normally participate. As trip leader it also gave me some extra comfort that if someone accidentally bit off more than they could chew - I could still have others do something a bit more challenging for them - so I didn't have to bring it all the way down to lowest common denominator. So it all worked out fairly well for the participants - and the bigger metric for me was whether folks had a good time and whether I piqued some curiosity from some others on what it might mean to do a more extended tour.

Capt Overpacker

Good Morning,

That's an excellent idea! He has a set of Ortliebs of some sort. I don't know how large they are. But I can use them to take some on-bike measurements and compare them to what I want to mount. I hope to have his Ortliebs tonight.

Agreed. Fast, slow or broke, I tend to strive for self-sufficiency. Sometimes I lose sight of the fact that not everyone rides that way. As you said, his goal is to pique interest. Heck, my own wife may drive SAG someday since it's the best way to get her to a campsite with us if she so desires. So I cannot dismiss the idea. I had included my "purity" comment as a bit of a disclaimer in case this group has a purist bias. However, I'm discovering that this section is a very diverse, accepting and supportive bunch. It's a nice change from the "this way only" mindset of other forums.

Scott

bmike

the good thing is on a single overnight, if you find you are really missing something you will only be without if for 1 night / day.
the bad news is that if you plan wrong for weather / etc. you could be a little cold / wet / miserable.
but its only 50 miles, and its only 1 night.
so, think about getting out of your comfort zone and carry a truly small load.
certainly be safe, and pack for the weather - but if the goal is to test out light loads for simple overnights... you can get away with pretty sparse kit.

here's my rig setup for a winter overnight.
the basic kit can be extended to multiple day / week trips.
i just add more calories / clothes, etc.

IMG_4177 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

of course, this setup is designed for moving, rather than hanging out in camp. although we've done that too - with a big fire, extra food, etc.

yard sale by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Krampus in its Element by mbeganyi, on Flickr

your large rear panniers should be sufficient... unless you are winter camping or planning on carrying heavy gear / food / booze / etc.

escii_35

I don't own any ultra light camping equipment. S24 is just my medium weight setup with less packing. Two medium bags on the front (better road handling) and a stuff sack on the back. Poles and pad go in the sack everything in the front bags. Extra walking shoes sometimes dangle from the stuff sack. Unless I'm combining with other folks, the stove sits at home.

Ultralight for me = no camping gear.

fietsbob

Tooth bush and a credit card .. at the low end . Ride , eat, stay in a Motel and ride back ..

berner

One way to help organize for a bike tour is to gather up the equipment you think will be necessary and put in all in a cardboard carton. This will tell you how much volume will be needed and how much it weighs. From there you can figure out how to distribute that gear on the bike. While not an ultra light packer, I do pay close attention to w hat I haul around and work to keep it all to a minimum. It's going to be a wonderful experience for you.

Capt Overpacker

Hello,

Thanks for your comments. I'd rather ride uncomfortably (heavy bike) than sleep uncomfortably (cold/wet). I think there's going to be some focus on the camping, too. I expect a social evening around the camp fire. I also suspect I will be first to bed. I'm no night owl and have a hard time staying awake after sunset. It's one of the reasons randonneuring is not working too well for me right now. It looks like I'm going to start with the smaller panniers. See below.

Maybe that'll be me some day. For now, I'm leaning toward packing for comfort. Once I learn to pack efficiently and develop some competence at a campground, then maybe I'll be able to go minimalist.

HAHA! I REALLY thought that's what my first S24O would be. I never thought I'd consider camping with a bicycle. And I haven't found anyone who wants to ride 50+ miles to a hotel. I can do it myself. But fellow riders make it more fun. Otherwise, the bike ride is the only difference from traveling alone by car for business.

I appreciate your tips and encouragement. I have my friend's Ortlieb front and back rollers. My heel just clears them if I slide them as far back onto the rack as possible. I need to test again with the bag stuffed with something more substantial than some packing paper (the paper was just a quick look). Regardless, it appears too close to call regarding the fit of Arkel's rear 48L panniers. I'm now looking at Arkel's Orca 35L front panniers and using them in the rear. With one in-hand, I can then get a better comparison and see how much fore/aft movement Arkel's panniers offer. "Worst case" (which isn't that bad at all) if I opt to take on longer tour is I'll ride with Orca 35s front and rear. That's still 5L more total capacity than what the Ortlieb front and rear rollers hold, a slim margin for sure.

I'm on the hunt for a warm, long sleeping bag that'll compress and fit into a 15" tall pannier. I already expect to carry a sleeping pad and tent on top of the rack. It would be nice to have the sleeping bag in a pannier.

Thanks Again,

Scott

Doug64

I've found a sleeping bag in the 25-30 F range works good in most situations. I believe that it is easier to cool off with a warm bag than it is to get warm with an inadequate bag. I also prefer a synthetic bag because it can be machine washed and quicklydried, and is still warm when wet. Check REI and Campmor for an idea of what is available. A 25-35 degree rated bag can be found that weighs 2-3 lbs.

A Thermrest Pro Lite 4 makes a good multi-season sleeping pad.

I also think a good nights sleep is worth carrying a little extra weight, especially on a long tour. My wife cut made some pillow cases to fit our stuffable pillows. This keeps the pillow clean and the cases are easy to clean.

Our bags are Marmot are "Pounder Plus" 25 degree, synthetic bags weighing a hair over 2 pounds. Unfortunately, they are no longer made.

On short summer tours we sometimes take 45 F rated bags, but have spent some uncomfortable nights, even in summer. On a tour late this summer we experienced temperatures in the low 30's which was a little cool even for our heavier bags.

berner

I use a Western Mountaineering down bag.Western Mountaineering I've had no problem with moisture but stuff it into a waterproof sack which I then stuff into a trash compactor plastic bag. This has stayed completely dry even during a one week backpacking trip into the Wemenuche wilderness area of Colorado where it rained every day. Trash compactor bags are very tough. That particular model sleeping bag is rated to 30 degrees F but the company overstuffed it for me so that is good down to 20 degrees or so. It packs up very small, can be washed, and has proven long lasting, unlike a synthetic fill bag which only lasted only a few years. It was expensive 10 years ago but worth every penny and is still in new condition after many, many nights of use and a washing.

There are many manufacturers of high quality sleeping bags and one can't go wrong with any of their products. It is even possible to buy water proof bags. Bags can be bulky and heavy so it is worth spending time to select the best one for your purposes.

palu

100% agreed here. I've even nixxed the tent and have gone with a light bivy and tarp. With the Revelate bags, you can get all you need and then some for an S24o.

- Tent or tarp/bivy
- Sleeping bag/pad
- Extra pari of underwear and socks
- Light pair of shorts
- Light rain jacket
- Wool sweater (if cold)
- Ti pot/stove/spork
- Toothbrush/paste
- Flashlight (or use bike headlight)

For food, I'd simply just get some freeze dried backpacking meals. Backpacker's Pantry spaghetti or Lasagna are good. As well as Sweet/Sour Pork. Deserts are awesome, too. Best thing? Boil water, pour, wait few min, then eat.

I am amazed at some people who bring the whole house with them. You're supposed to be out in nature. Enjoy it.

nun

I do S24Os with the same setup I use for longer tours. Saddlebag is 23 Liters and handlebar bag is 8.5 Liters.

Capt Overpacker

Thanks for the additional input. I'm confident this'll be a piece of cake with 32L of capacity. Tonight, I stuffed an Ortlieb rear roller and snapped a photo to show heel clearance:



This will work for the Ortlieb. However, I'm still looking to use the Arkel Orca. Their 32L should fit. Then I'll figure out how much fore/aft adjustment they have and estimate whether their 45L bag will fit.

mrv 

my two cents:
- a simple packing list here if you've not got it yet:Learn About Bikes with Rivendell Bicycle Works
- for heel clearance, why not use flat pedals? i've not seen that suggested yet - there's lots to read in this thread though...
- last spring and fall i did my first bit of low key over night bike touring.
if you need more photos, click:
SPRING - my son is not carrying much, maybe 15lbs. i've got about 25lbs on a 30lb TourHopper
LATE SUMMER

thanks to everyone for posting your photos. i dig checking out how other people are pulling things together.

Capt Overpacker

Thanks for the photos, Mark. Unfortunately, flat pedals are not an option for me. They ARE... just not one I wish to consider. Once accustomed to the position and security (yes, security) they provide, using a flat pedal to move my foot to a less-desirable position simply isn't something I want to try. Besides, my foot would likely still instinctively try to go where it's accustomed and still hit the pannier from time to time. The 1/2-inch buffer shown above can be maintained indefinitely with clipless pedals without even thinking about it.

palu

Cervelo with a Brooks saddle and touring bags. NICE!!

fietsbob

Old adage: "The load expands to fill the volume available."

The challenge is always to not fill the Panniers , just because the space is there ..

mrv 

- says the most with the fewest words

Capt: i can't defend flat pedals better than Grant at RivBike.com - so i won't! Personally I ride both pedals, road bikes get the clipless, touring bikes/yard bikes get the flat pedals.
But do consider you can save carrying camp shoes. Saves weight, space, allows room for a fuel tab stove and coffee! Priorities, man, priorities!!