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Forum: Framebuilders
04-18-24, 03:55 PM
Replies: 3
Views: 265
Posted By unterhausen

Stack and reach are definitely measured from the...

Stack and reach are definitely measured from the bb. 2" of stack is a lot. I can imagine a bike meant for a quill stem will have less stack, but I wouldn't wouldn't expect to lose more than an...
Forum: Framebuilders
04-16-24, 11:03 AM
Replies: 25
Views: 855
Posted By Doug Fattic

The problem with your request is that if your...

The problem with your request is that if your primary concern and controlling factor in frame design will be based on a comfortable fit and that will involve some compromises to a frame design. Those...
Forum: Framebuilders
04-14-24, 04:16 PM
Replies: 3
Views: 228
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

Every paint formulation I have used for bikes had...

Every paint formulation I have used for bikes had its own recoat time. Many are like guy says, suggesting a recoat after set up but before fully dry or after fully dry (and then a fine wet/dry...
Forum: Framebuilders
04-14-24, 12:13 PM
Replies: 3
Views: 228
Posted By PoorInRichfield

Frame Painting: Maximizing Adhesion & Durability

On my last custom frame paint project for a steal frame, I used a metal primer + color + 2k clear and let the paint dry for several days between each paint type (i.e., painted primer, let it dry for...
Forum: Framebuilders
04-12-24, 10:56 AM
Replies: 25
Views: 855
Posted By Doug Fattic

When designing a frame, it is necessary to...

When designing a frame, it is necessary to prioritize what is important and compromise on what less so. For example some cyclists that are older, fatter and less flexible can no longer ride in the...
Forum: Framebuilders
04-11-24, 11:38 AM
Replies: 25
Views: 855
Posted By PromptCritical

Thanks Doug! That's my situation. My flexibility...

Thanks Doug! That's my situation. My flexibility has decreased over the years (although I was never Gumby) and I have arthritis in my shoulders. I'm interested in building a frame to get away from...
Forum: Framebuilders
04-11-24, 10:56 AM
Replies: 25
Views: 855
Posted By Doug Fattic

I'm a builder that has been teaching...

I'm a builder that has been teaching framebuilding classes since the middle 70's. There are 2 common approaches to designing a frame. The 1st most commonly used is to design a frame for maximum speed...
Forum: Framebuilders
04-11-24, 09:59 AM
Replies: 25
Views: 855
Posted By unterhausen

It might be worthwhile to look at Paterek, Talbot...

It might be worthwhile to look at Paterek, Talbot and the Proteus manual. Just treat them all with skepticism. I'm sure Dave Levy has more experience and knowledge than all those authors combined....
Forum: Framebuilders
03-27-24, 08:31 AM
Replies: 8
Views: 452
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

And if you do build the frame post a few shots...

And if you do build the frame post a few shots here for our pleasure. Andy
Forum: Framebuilders
03-22-24, 09:31 AM
Replies: 8
Views: 452
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

"But the idea is to minimize the errors if you...

"But the idea is to minimize the errors if you can" Guy153

This! No frame will be perfectly made and no rider will have a perfect body to power that imaginary bike. However we can (and I think...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-21-24, 06:07 PM
Replies: 8
Views: 452
Posted By avhed

Bottom Headset Stack Height considered for building headtube length?

How much is this considered when cutting the headtube length?
Forum: Framebuilders
03-16-24, 01:56 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

Maybe I shouldn't have brought alignment into it,...

Maybe I shouldn't have brought alignment into it, but I feel like it's a common reason for shimmy. Bob Dopolina (BDop bike parts founder) used to post in every thread about shimmy that he knew that...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-15-24, 08:16 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

Like I said, shimmy is a fundamental aspect of...

Like I said, shimmy is a fundamental aspect of the steering geometry. I'll admit this doesn't prove it's not stiffness, but I have presented extremely good evidence that it's not on normal bikes. I'm...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-15-24, 04:08 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By bulgie

My working assumption has always been that frame...

My working assumption has always been that frame alignment was not a factor. I can't explain how I came to that conclusion exactly, other than knowing some frames that shimmied were near perfectly...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-15-24, 03:17 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

Bicycle steering geometry is self-righting, the...

Bicycle steering geometry is self-righting, the front wheel automatically goes back to center. There is also the matter of flop, which drives the wheels away from center. It's a situation that's...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-14-24, 07:54 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

That's not how structural vibration works, it's...

That's not how structural vibration works, it's really pretty deterministic in a structure like a bicycle. With the right equipment, you can measure the frequencies where it will vibrate. There is...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-14-24, 12:07 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

There has been plenty of research on shimmy on...

There has been plenty of research on shimmy on motorcycles. You can find videos of "tank slappers." They generally don't consider stiffness at all, but the one (simulation based) paper I read that...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-14-24, 08:34 AM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By harrier6

Yesterday I put SPD-SL pedals on my vintage...

Yesterday I put SPD-SL pedals on my vintage skinny tubed bike for the first time and realized how much a modern saddle, pedals, and bar tape can "modernize" the feel of a bike. Frame/wheel stiffness...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-14-24, 07:26 AM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

I have seen people that the test in the Pyrenees....

I have seen people that the test in the Pyrenees. was conducted on bikes that didn't fit properly. My '80s racing bike can be terrifying to descend on, because it shimmies at around 30mph if you...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-12-24, 12:20 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

I try to ignore shimmy being blamed on frame...

I try to ignore shimmy being blamed on frame stiffness, but single oversize tubing generally the same torsional stiffness as standard tubing. Because of wall thickness. But if a touring frame...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-12-24, 09:48 AM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By duanedr

I agree with you that standard sized tubing is...

I agree with you that standard sized tubing is still viable from a structural standpoint, from a customer standpoint, there are very few asking for standard sized tubing with disc brakes and through...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-12-24, 09:04 AM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,039
Posted By unterhausen

I'm not light, and I tend to push big gears...

I'm not light, and I tend to push big gears occasionally. Standard tubing really isn't as bad as people say, but the effects of propaganda last a very long time. The steel tube manufactures had to...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-10-24, 11:14 PM
Replies: 17
Views: 655
Posted By Gyro_T

I ordered the Reynolds EX5720 fork blades from...

I ordered the Reynolds EX5720 fork blades from Torch and File in Portland, OR. I happen to have an old 531 steerer that I will use for the arms to make a segmented fork. I have been using Gasflux...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-06-24, 09:52 AM
Replies: 17
Views: 655
Posted By unterhausen

I think the failure of that fork Andy is talking...

I think the failure of that fork Andy is talking about can be traced back to drilling vent holes on the outside diameter of the crown segment. Those crown segments see a lot of fatigue cycles. They...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-05-24, 06:57 PM
Replies: 17
Views: 655
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

Thanks for following up. A bunch of years ago...

Thanks for following up. A bunch of years ago there were a few segmented fork failures that were posted and talked about on various forums. They have been referenced every so often since and it seems...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-05-24, 10:23 AM
Replies: 12
Views: 651
Posted By unterhausen

It's going to be difficult to flow silver into...

It's going to be difficult to flow silver into there because you can't clean it properly. I have had luck with brass and dirty surfaces, but that takes a real torch. The problem with not having any...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-05-24, 09:56 AM
Replies: 12
Views: 651
Posted By dsaul

Propane won't get hot enough. MAPP gas will get...

Propane won't get hot enough. MAPP gas will get hot enough to flow high silver content filler. If you don't already have the filler, it might not be worth buying an ounce of it for this project. 56%...
Forum: Framebuilders
03-05-24, 05:27 AM
Replies: 12
Views: 651
Posted By bulgie

"Rebrazed" impies it was ever brazed in the first...

"Rebrazed" impies it was ever brazed in the first place. Well some of it was, but the job was never completed.

I think with some more brazing it can be safe, hard to know for sure though. And...
Forum: Framebuilders
02-25-24, 07:09 PM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By dschad

It's not rocket science!

So, I have a couple hundred miles on the bike after putting some better road tires (Maxxis DTH 2.1 x 26). When playing around with the inflation level of the tires, I noticed pretty significant issue...
Forum: Framebuilders
02-20-24, 06:03 PM
Replies: 5
Views: 457
Posted By Chuck M

Depending on what you have should be considered...

Depending on what you have should be considered when looking into paint options. Since this post was made in the frame builders forum, I assumed it was going to be about getting a frame painted that...
Forum: Framebuilders
02-04-24, 07:11 PM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By dschad

Hi all. I put it together and had a successful...

Hi all. I put it together and had a successful test ride, and I'm pretty happy with it:
...
Forum: Framebuilders
02-04-24, 09:34 AM
Replies: 21
Views: 958
Posted By unterhausen

I'm not sure why we're arguing springs though, it...

I'm not sure why we're arguing springs though, it doesn't seem relevant to bike frames. Spring failure occurs after obvious plastic deformation across the full section of the spring. Bike frames...
Forum: Framebuilders
02-03-24, 12:41 PM
Replies: 21
Views: 958
Posted By bulgie

I don't think anyone has said springs can't...

I don't think anyone has said springs can't yield, they clearly can. If they yield in normal use, that's a design fail.

But I think it's important to remember that yielding only changes the...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-31-24, 10:30 AM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By dschad

That steerer was about 50% threaded. It seems...

That steerer was about 50% threaded. It seems likely there is going to be a big violation of the 20mm rule out in the wild.



So, I will redo. That doesn't bother me too much, but waiting for...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-31-24, 06:19 AM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By bulgie

Steerers with that much thread are malpractice...

Steerers with that much thread are malpractice and should be illegal. I'm not joking, I'm talking jail time. The manu knows or should bloody well know that they're unsafe, but they save a few bucks...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-29-24, 08:48 PM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By dschad

Fork progress; should be on the road by the weekend.

I needed to go from a steerer of about 140mm to 290ish, so I took two forks and 2" of 7/8 x 065 tube and made a long-steerer version for my project bike. I followed the lead of Paul Brodie from a...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-21-24, 05:36 PM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By bulgie

Excellent work, but I have a suggestion. Sorry,...

Excellent work, but I have a suggestion. Sorry, it involves fluxing and heating again, but I think it's important to braze the cylindrical part of the canti boss to the square sheetmetal part....
Forum: Framebuilders
01-21-24, 04:06 PM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By dschad

Brake bosses

Coming down the home stretch I suppose, or at least I can see it around the next corner. I relocated the canti bosses which were setup for 27".

I made the tool (based on versions I've seen by...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-21-24, 12:49 PM
Replies: 12
Views: 1,274
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

I have a yoke I will never use, I tried making my...

I have a yoke I will never use, I tried making my own and didn't like that either. There are some out there I do find myself attracted to for various reasons, but I don't push the tire width spec too...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-21-24, 06:20 AM
Replies: 12
Views: 1,274
Posted By unterhausen

My gravel bike is going to run 650b x monster...

My gravel bike is going to run 650b x monster tires, or 700c x 44mm. Seemed to me to be the best compromise. I hate the idea of yokes, admittedly for no good reason. Okay, the reason is I'm cheap. I...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-19-24, 02:05 PM
Replies: 23
Views: 928
Posted By bulgie

I think it's widely agreed that you should knock...

I think it's widely agreed that you should knock back those thin feather edges for welding. Bikes too, not just "car people". No need to knock them back for brazing, doesn't matter much one way or...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-18-24, 01:57 PM
Replies: 23
Views: 928
Posted By bulgie

There's a youtuber who goes by something like The...

There's a youtuber who goes by something like The Fabricator. I watched his video on notching tubes, which he does for making roll cages for race cars. He notched with a flap wheel in an angle...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-17-24, 07:49 PM
Replies: 23
Views: 928
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

I have to admit the whole angle grinder world is...

I have to admit the whole angle grinder world is foreign to me. Andy
Forum: Framebuilders
01-17-24, 01:08 PM
Replies: 23
Views: 928
Posted By unterhausen

Interesting, I have some of those. I'll have to...

Interesting, I have some of those. I'll have to try it. The tubes I want to strip are cut out of frames already, so no hidden parts. Removing paint mechanically is much better than the alternatives
Forum: Framebuilders
01-17-24, 10:16 AM
Replies: 23
Views: 928
Posted By unterhausen

I'm assuming a bird's nest wheel is called a "cup...

I'm assuming a bird's nest wheel is called a "cup wheel" here in the states. I never had much luck with a grinder, always had to burn off the paint. Which isn't a good idea. I have a stack of tubes...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-16-24, 02:42 PM
Replies: 23
Views: 928
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

Many of us did recycle old frames into practice...

Many of us did recycle old frames into practice material but the time it took to clean off the paint was taking away from the practice torch stuff time so speaking for myself I suggest raw tubing as...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-15-24, 08:27 PM
Replies: 21
Views: 958
Posted By Nessism

This reminds me of the claim that high strength...

This reminds me of the claim that high strength tubes are stiffer than non heat treated tubes. In reality, the modulus of elasticity doesn't care about strength. A cheap, low end, thick tube, will...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-15-24, 10:54 AM
Replies: 7
Views: 456
Posted By Andrew R Stewart

"The cable stop seems to be aiming slightly at...

"The cable stop seems to be aiming slightly at the inside of the CS. So it's possible that I want to run a bit of outer inside the CS and then along the bottom of it. Then maybe I put a cable stop a...
Forum: Framebuilders
01-14-24, 07:56 PM
Replies: 43
Views: 2,438
Posted By dschad

Progress on the most measured frame in history

So, after endless measuring, thinking and remeasuring...I finally got sick of it and put the bloody thing back together....
Forum: Framebuilders
01-14-24, 02:08 PM
Replies: 7
Views: 456
Posted By unterhausen

To me, it looks like your adjuster is drooping a...

To me, it looks like your adjuster is drooping a bit. If that's not true, did they drill the hole crooked?
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