Please enlighten me on gravel bik
#226
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Or, if the marketing term "Gravel bike" hadn't been developed, you could flip that around, and buy a touring bike and a second set of wheels for gravel. Neither approach is wrong, but you're recognizing that it's mostly about the tires. The industry doesn't want you to think that way. They want you to think that even if you already have a touring bike, you still need another, new bike if you want to ride on gravel. Take an existing bicycle and just put different wheels on it? Ridiculous - you need a whole new bike. Please visit our "Gravel Bikes" section.
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#228
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Well, considering the statement he was correcting was in the very first sentence of a long post that extrapolated from it, you GAS apparently. Your sarcasm is an own goal--if the point wasn't worth making, why did you bring it up?
You basically accused everyone who has both a CX bike and a gravel bike as having fallen for marketing tricks. Your premise was that they're pretty much the same bike, and that's just wrong. There's some overlap in function, but each of them is suited for something that the other one isn't. If you didn't GAS about the specifics, don't make the broad accusatory argument based on the specifics. People don't like it when they get accused of stuff for stupid reasons.
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#229
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Why is that a gravel bike? Oh, I see....
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#230
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Seriously! I mean who doesn't have a touring bike just lying around?
What the hell, let's just make the point that pretty much any type of bike can be made more suitable for another use by changing the components. Obviously, the notion that there are different degrees of suitability and that a bike can be specifically designed to perform a particular function very well is just marketing hype (insert sarcastic gesture here).
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#231
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It's that Surly is not marketing "gravel bikes" as a separate category or type of bike. If somebody went to Surly's website they would learn that Surly sells what they call Pavement, Touring, Trail, and Haulin' bikes. No gravel bike section. Then if you start looking at their models, you'd find that they promote the use of a couple of their Pavement bikes for gravel riding, and if you put the right tires on a Pavement bike then you can call it a gravel bike.
That's the point. You can take a wide variety of existing bicycle designs and put the right tires on it, and call it a gravel bike. That's what Surly is doing. "Gravel bike" is a made-up term, not a new classification of bicycle that was suddenly developed. We've always had gravel bikes, it's just that nobody called them that. But if marketing can convince anyone that gravel bikes are a new, unique type of bicycle, more power to them. Whatever sells bikes.
That's the point. You can take a wide variety of existing bicycle designs and put the right tires on it, and call it a gravel bike. That's what Surly is doing. "Gravel bike" is a made-up term, not a new classification of bicycle that was suddenly developed. We've always had gravel bikes, it's just that nobody called them that. But if marketing can convince anyone that gravel bikes are a new, unique type of bicycle, more power to them. Whatever sells bikes.
I'm not sure why you chose Surly as your baseline for this discussion. Their marketing spin is intentional and targeted. What makes a bike a "pavement bike"? That sounds like a made-up marketing term.
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#232
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I'd have let it lie if your implication was that the bikes were similar, I can agree that there is some similarity. But that statement (We used to call it cyclocross) implies equvalance between the racing activities when there is very little similarity. Anyone who has seen a cyclocross race and a gravel race would know that. Cyclocross involves running while carrying the bike up stairs, jumping barriers, carrying when the mud or sand is unrideable. Races are typically multiple laps and take about an hour. Gravel races are typicically all riding over a long course and often much longer distances. They most often invole pack riding and often team tactics, much more so than cyclocross.
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#233
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So ... I had a touring bike ... I changed the tires .... and the fork, and the wheels, and the stem and the bars .... and the saddle and seat post .... and the brakes .... and then the frame ... and Voila! I had a gravel bike.
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#234
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Or, to be more clear .... enough of this nonsense.
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#235
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Here's a little recap of what makes a gravel bike different from a road bike. Let me know if I've missed something:
Gravel Bike vs Road Bike
- longer wheelbase (smooth out the bumps)
- will fit much wider tires (smoother ride, better traction)
- higher stack height (better low speed control (?), lower speeds don't need aero position)
- higher bottom bracket (less likely to ground pedals)
- lower gearing (lower speeds, don't need high gears)
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#236
There was actually a big hole in the market, which has now been filled.
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#237
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I halfheartedly apologize to anyone who felt that I “accused” them of anything; though I will stand by the points I made, as the fact of the matter is that you can stuff the widest tires you can on your road bike, CX bike, TT bike, track bike, whatever, and call it a “gravel bike”. John Tomac rode a “gravel bike” when he stuck a Cinelli drop bar on his Yeti. It’s all pretty much the same if the frame can fit the tires and you don’t want folks to think you’re on a flat bar boardwalk “hybrid”. You can do 100% of the riding you want with a bike that existed long before the marketing term “gravel bike” came into being. Years ago, right after I moved to Philly, I rode a DeRosa “gravel bike” up and down the Wissahickon because I could.
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
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#238
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#239
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Aside from disc brakes and carbon fiber frames, that sounds a lot like early club racers.
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#240
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Just that Surly was a quickly-found example. Trek, Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale all have links you can click on and entire sections called "Gravel Bikes". Surly does not. You have to go a little deeper and read about their "pavement" bikes to learn that fitted with the right tires, several of them are also perfectly suitable for gravel. And yeah, pavement bike is a strange term too. Not pushing Surly and I don't own one. I do think that Surly sells to a more experienced and sophisticated customer, who can see through most marketing jargon and would maybe even roll their eyes if Surly started hawking "gravel bikes".
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#241
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I know. With the money I have into some of my builds, I look back and realize I could have just bought something pretty nice. But that's not as much fun, or satisfying. Anyone can go out and just write a check.
"Poor man's Rivendell" is a common term though, and it has been used in BF forums before.
"Poor man's Rivendell" is a common term though, and it has been used in BF forums before.
That, to me, is very different from the guy in the video who has a really neat and creative bike, but its hardly a 'poor man' anything.
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#242
Senior Member
Yes, it has helped on numerous occasions, to see through marketing hype and jargon, and look deeper into actual product distinctions. Why exactly is that an air fryer? Oh, right. They include a wire rack with a regular convection oven. But couldn't I have just bought the wire rack? Sure.
Why is that a gravel bike? Oh, I see....
Why is that a gravel bike? Oh, I see....
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#243
Senior Member
Just that Surly was a quickly-found example. Trek, Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale all have links you can click on and entire sections called "Gravel Bikes". Surly does not. You have to go a little deeper and read about their "pavement" bikes to learn that fitted with the right tires, several of them are also perfectly suitable for gravel. And yeah, pavement bike is a strange term too. Not pushing Surly and I don't own one. I do think that Surly sells to a more experienced and sophisticated customer, who can see through most marketing jargon and would maybe even roll their eyes if Surly started hawking "gravel bikes".
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#244
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I halfheartedly apologize to anyone who felt that I “accused” them of anything; though I will stand by the points I made, as the fact of the matter is that you can stuff the widest tires you can on your road bike, CX bike, TT bike, track bike, whatever, and call it a “gravel bike”. John Tomac rode a “gravel bike” when he stuck a Cinelli drop bar on his Yeti. It’s all pretty much the same if the frame can fit the tires and you don’t want folks to think you’re on a flat bar boardwalk “hybrid”. You can do 100% of the riding you want with a bike that existed long before the marketing term “gravel bike” came into being. Years ago, right after I moved to Philly, I rode a DeRosa “gravel bike” up and down the Wissahickon because I could.
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
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#245
I halfheartedly apologize to anyone who felt that I “accused” them of anything; though I will stand by the points I made, as the fact of the matter is that you can stuff the widest tires you can on your road bike, CX bike, TT bike, track bike, whatever, and call it a “gravel bike”. John Tomac rode a “gravel bike” when he stuck a Cinelli drop bar on his Yeti. It’s all pretty much the same if the frame can fit the tires and you don’t want folks to think you’re on a flat bar boardwalk “hybrid”. You can do 100% of the riding you want with a bike that existed long before the marketing term “gravel bike” came into being. Years ago, right after I moved to Philly, I rode a DeRosa “gravel bike” up and down the Wissahickon because I could.
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
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#246
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Stop what? Stop presenting the other side of the debate, that "Gravel Bike" is a made-up marketing term with no real distinction? I'm not the only one that thinks that, and I would say I'm in pretty good company.
It really seems to bother you that you don't get to be the arbiter of what is or is not a gravel bike.
It really seems to bother you that you don't get to be the arbiter of what is or is not a gravel bike.
As for 'gravel bike' being a made up marketing term with no real distinction...so what? Lets say you are correct. Cool- you are correct. Now what? What has changed, besides you no longer posting rants? Nothing. Nothing has actually changed. It doesnt matter what the category is called.
Here are some actual truths, based on you know, reality.
- 'gravel' is a very wide ranging category. It encompasses everything from lightweight aero designed wide tire road bikes to beastly 2.5" lugged tire bikepacking setups meant to support someone for weeks on the road. It is OK for the term to be really wide ranging. If you want to narrow it down, fine then- gravel race bike, gravel bike, gravel adventure bike. There- 3 subcategories for you to write a dissertation on.
- 'gravel bike' wasnt created by a marketing company. The entire segment also wasnt created by a brand's marketing department. People rode on dirt roads and gravel roads for a long time. Races started happening. Races became a bit more popular. The alternative style of the activity as well as the endurance nature of the races was appealing to others. As popularity began to grow, brands took notice and started designing things to better suit the activity(frame, brakes, tires, tape, bars, etc etc. Bike brands saw a new segment emerging and jumped on it because it could make them money. And now here we are. Thats the reality, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise.
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#247
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Just that Surly was a quickly-found example. Trek, Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale all have links you can click on and entire sections called "Gravel Bikes". Surly does not. You have to go a little deeper and read about their "pavement" bikes to learn that fitted with the right tires, several of them are also perfectly suitable for gravel. And yeah, pavement bike is a strange term too. Not pushing Surly and I don't own one. I do think that Surly sells to a more experienced and sophisticated customer, who can see through most marketing jargon and would maybe even roll their eyes if Surly started hawking "gravel bikes".
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#248
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Just that Surly was a quickly-found example. Trek, Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale all have links you can click on and entire sections called "Gravel Bikes". Surly does not. You have to go a little deeper and read about their "pavement" bikes to learn that fitted with the right tires, several of them are also perfectly suitable for gravel. And yeah, pavement bike is a strange term too. Not pushing Surly and I don't own one. I do think that Surly sells to a more experienced and sophisticated customer, who can see through most marketing jargon and would maybe even roll their eyes if Surly started hawking "gravel bikes".
Oh my gosh.
Surly sells an image, just like others. To me, Surly's image is adventure, utility, and an alt-culture.
Your ignorance knows no bounds.
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#249
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I halfheartedly apologize to anyone who felt that I “accused” them of anything; though I will stand by the points I made, as the fact of the matter is that you can stuff the widest tires you can on your road bike, CX bike, TT bike, track bike, whatever, and call it a “gravel bike”. John Tomac rode a “gravel bike” when he stuck a Cinelli drop bar on his Yeti. It’s all pretty much the same if the frame can fit the tires and you don’t want folks to think you’re on a flat bar boardwalk “hybrid”. You can do 100% of the riding you want with a bike that existed long before the marketing term “gravel bike” came into being. Years ago, right after I moved to Philly, I rode a DeRosa “gravel bike” up and down the Wissahickon because I could.
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).
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#250
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Just that Surly was a quickly-found example. Trek, Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale all have links you can click on and entire sections called "Gravel Bikes". Surly does not. You have to go a little deeper and read about their "pavement" bikes to learn that fitted with the right tires, several of them are also perfectly suitable for gravel. And yeah, pavement bike is a strange term too. Not pushing Surly and I don't own one. I do think that Surly sells to a more experienced and sophisticated customer, who can see through most marketing jargon and would maybe even roll their eyes if Surly started hawking "gravel bikes".
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