For the love of English 3 speeds...
01-30-23, 10:31 AM
Count Orlok Member
Sheldon Brown has a bit on it: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/tcw.html
The brake is run through the gear train, so if the cable is out of whack, the brake could fail. Also, if you're in third gear, you have back pedal even farther to get it to engage.
If you take one apart, the brake band is not that big, either, but adjusted correctly it works ok.
I had one in a bike for my adolescent daughter, but I built up an AWC for her latest bike. She also likes the Sachs Torpedo in a different bike.
The brake is run through the gear train, so if the cable is out of whack, the brake could fail. Also, if you're in third gear, you have back pedal even farther to get it to engage.
If you take one apart, the brake band is not that big, either, but adjusted correctly it works ok.
I had one in a bike for my adolescent daughter, but I built up an AWC for her latest bike. She also likes the Sachs Torpedo in a different bike.
Likes For gna:
01-30-23, 10:34 AM
ambulatory senior
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 6,002
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1957 Post(s)
Liked 3,673 Times
in
1,684 Posts
Sheldon Brown has a bit on it: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/tcw.html
The brake is run through the gear train, so if the cable is out of whack, the brake could fail. Also, if you're in third gear, you have back pedal even farther to get it to engage.
If you take one apart, the brake band is not that big, either, but adjusted correctly it works ok.
I had one in a bike for my adolescent daughter, but I built up an AWC for her latest bike. She also likes the Sachs Torpedo in a different bike.
The brake is run through the gear train, so if the cable is out of whack, the brake could fail. Also, if you're in third gear, you have back pedal even farther to get it to engage.
If you take one apart, the brake band is not that big, either, but adjusted correctly it works ok.
I had one in a bike for my adolescent daughter, but I built up an AWC for her latest bike. She also likes the Sachs Torpedo in a different bike.
01-30-23, 12:55 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,214
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4563 Post(s)
Liked 6,533 Times
in
3,749 Posts
Well, $15 and local to me, I couldn’t resist. Contacted the seller through FBM and made arrangements to meet her at 7 pm last night at a local transit station. At around 7:15, it seems she was going to be a now show, but just then a city bus pulled up with a blue lady’s 3-speed on the front rack. Ends up that was the seller, but the Phillips she retrieved from the bus rack was her regular commuter. She needed to bike home and retrieve the Huffy. About 10 min later she was back, and the deal was done. I removed the crate to find an English-made Huffy Sportsman in decent shape and ready for a rehab.
This saddle has more brackets attached than I can make sense of.
Rear rack is the most corroded part and will likely get removed. Chrome fenders should clean up well. It’ll be a winter project, and in the spring I’ll give it away to a work colleague.
This saddle has more brackets attached than I can make sense of.
Rear rack is the most corroded part and will likely get removed. Chrome fenders should clean up well. It’ll be a winter project, and in the spring I’ll give it away to a work colleague.
Looks like the crossbrace stiffens the spring mounts.
No way that rack goes away for me, derust, strip, clean, whatever, rattle can black or? and done.
01-30-23, 05:17 PM
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Millersville, MD
Posts: 22
Bikes: Dunelt 3 Spd (hub date 1964); 2 Raleigh (early 70s) Grand Prix converted to SA AW; 76 Raleigh Rampar converted to SA AW; Raleigh Super Course fixed; Raysport; 2003 Trek XO1; Jamis Aurora; Jamis Expat; Bianchi Posts (S3X); 1985 Ross Mt Hood; Univega;
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times
in
7 Posts
Well, $15 and local to me, I couldn’t resist. Contacted the seller through FBM and made arrangements to meet her at 7 pm last night at a local transit station. At around 7:15, it seems she was going to be a now show, but just then a city bus pulled up with a blue lady’s 3-speed on the front rack. Ends up that was the seller, but the Phillips she retrieved from the bus rack was her regular commuter. She needed to bike home and retrieve the Huffy. About 10 min later she was back, and the deal was done. I removed the crate to find an English-made Huffy Sportsman in decent shape and ready for a rehab.
Bonus for Kool Stop Continental brake pads though that’s quite a creative solution to securing the double-ended cable:
Bonus for Kool Stop Continental brake pads though that’s quite a creative solution to securing the double-ended cable:
01-30-23, 09:52 PM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,452 Times
in
1,559 Posts
Likes For thumpism:
01-31-23, 09:02 AM
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,842
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,454 Times
in
1,960 Posts
It's not that they're failure prone; it's that the design makes for problematic braking effectiveness. The coaster brake in the TCW hub is actuated through the internal gear mechanism, which means that the mechanical advantage of the brake depends on which gear you're in when you apply the brake. Specifically, in high gear, when, presumably, you're going fastest, the mechanical advantage is at its weakest. If you remember to shift to low gear before applying the brake, you'll get the highest mechanical advantage. But you're least likely to remember to do that in a panic stop, which is also when you're most likely to need a strong brake.
Likes For JohnDThompson:
01-31-23, 05:56 PM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,452 Times
in
1,559 Posts
$50 for a men's Phillips and a women's Triumph in NH. Unclear if that's individual or pair pricing.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...67804183411537
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...67804183411537
Likes For thumpism:
01-31-23, 06:16 PM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,452 Times
in
1,559 Posts
02-01-23, 08:30 AM
On the road
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,201
Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 910 Times
in
346 Posts
They can be a real problem if they have been abused or ridden a lot in improper adjustment. I agree with Sheldon pointing out the problems of running the brake through the drive train, though I would not necessarily write-off all of them. They run relatively smoothly and the braking action is pleasant. The cable adjustment is familiar to anyone who has worked on an AW, with the caveat that extra care is needed when adjusting.
They're not overly complex to work on, but there are some sore spots. Where things go bad is if there's an issue with the central E-clip in the hub. The two halves of the hub innards (the transmission on one side and the brake set up on the other) are held in place by a single, somewhat fragile E-clip that rides in a recess in the axle. If the clip is bent or damaged, shifting into high gear will push it out of position and cause the hub to malfunction in various ways. The result is you have to remove the wheel, tear down the hub, and re-set the E-clip. Of the TCW hubs I've had (not a huge number but more than most people are willing to put up with), just about half had some issue with that E-clip.
If you have one that's original to the bike and is working properly, I wouldn't tear the wheel apart just to get rid of it. But at the same time, I wouldn't spend my time building up wheels with one either. Honestly, if you need a Sturmey coaster brake hub, I'd go newer with something like the AWC or the modern SRC3.
They're not overly complex to work on, but there are some sore spots. Where things go bad is if there's an issue with the central E-clip in the hub. The two halves of the hub innards (the transmission on one side and the brake set up on the other) are held in place by a single, somewhat fragile E-clip that rides in a recess in the axle. If the clip is bent or damaged, shifting into high gear will push it out of position and cause the hub to malfunction in various ways. The result is you have to remove the wheel, tear down the hub, and re-set the E-clip. Of the TCW hubs I've had (not a huge number but more than most people are willing to put up with), just about half had some issue with that E-clip.
If you have one that's original to the bike and is working properly, I wouldn't tear the wheel apart just to get rid of it. But at the same time, I wouldn't spend my time building up wheels with one either. Honestly, if you need a Sturmey coaster brake hub, I'd go newer with something like the AWC or the modern SRC3.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
Likes For SirMike1983:
02-01-23, 11:14 AM
ambulatory senior
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 6,002
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1957 Post(s)
Liked 3,673 Times
in
1,684 Posts
They can be a real problem if they have been abused or ridden a lot in improper adjustment. I agree with Sheldon pointing out the problems of running the brake through the drive train, though I would not necessarily write-off all of them. They run relatively smoothly and the braking action is pleasant. The cable adjustment is familiar to anyone who has worked on an AW, with the caveat that extra care is needed when adjusting.
They're not overly complex to work on, but there are some sore spots. Where things go bad is if there's an issue with the central E-clip in the hub. The two halves of the hub innards (the transmission on one side and the brake set up on the other) are held in place by a single, somewhat fragile E-clip that rides in a recess in the axle. If the clip is bent or damaged, shifting into high gear will push it out of position and cause the hub to malfunction in various ways. The result is you have to remove the wheel, tear down the hub, and re-set the E-clip. Of the TCW hubs I've had (not a huge number but more than most people are willing to put up with), just about half had some issue with that E-clip.
If you have one that's original to the bike and is working properly, I wouldn't tear the wheel apart just to get rid of it. But at the same time, I wouldn't spend my time building up wheels with one either. Honestly, if you need a Sturmey coaster brake hub, I'd go newer with something like the AWC or the modern SRC3.
They're not overly complex to work on, but there are some sore spots. Where things go bad is if there's an issue with the central E-clip in the hub. The two halves of the hub innards (the transmission on one side and the brake set up on the other) are held in place by a single, somewhat fragile E-clip that rides in a recess in the axle. If the clip is bent or damaged, shifting into high gear will push it out of position and cause the hub to malfunction in various ways. The result is you have to remove the wheel, tear down the hub, and re-set the E-clip. Of the TCW hubs I've had (not a huge number but more than most people are willing to put up with), just about half had some issue with that E-clip.
If you have one that's original to the bike and is working properly, I wouldn't tear the wheel apart just to get rid of it. But at the same time, I wouldn't spend my time building up wheels with one either. Honestly, if you need a Sturmey coaster brake hub, I'd go newer with something like the AWC or the modern SRC3.
02-01-23, 01:45 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 537
Bikes: Vilano Urbana, DownTube FS9, Montaque paratrooper, Nano mini-velo, Motobecane CX, Raleigh 20, MIFA folder, ROG Pony, Iverson Grand Touring folder, Exclusiv German folder
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked 192 Times
in
120 Posts
Raleigh RSW, circa 1974, made in Japan. Last month it had one wheel in the dumpster. Now with new bearings and grease in the headset/bottom bracket/front hub, new chain, shifter and pedals, it is a nice riding bicycle. Solid. A bit too small for my 6', 260lbs. But it will make someone very happy. Just hope it's appreciated.
Amazing how nice this bike rides.
Amazing how nice this bike rides.
Likes For mirfi:
02-04-23, 09:50 PM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,452 Times
in
1,559 Posts
Likes For thumpism:
02-04-23, 11:22 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,238
Mentioned: 485 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked 6,898 Times
in
2,665 Posts
02-05-23, 10:04 AM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,452 Times
in
1,559 Posts
I suspect that odd lever is positioned to accommodate right-hand braking, possibly due to a bum left flipper on the guy. I knew a fellow who rode an upright rig with two brake levers on the right along with a barcon and a thumbie for shifting.
Likes For thumpism:
02-05-23, 12:12 PM
Standard Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
Last edited by 1989Pre; 02-05-23 at 12:43 PM.
02-05-23, 12:18 PM
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,863
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2300 Post(s)
Liked 2,066 Times
in
1,260 Posts
Dunelt was making motorcycles at the beginning of the 20th century and transitioned to bikes somewhere around the 30's iirc. This example has a Raleigh frame with a Birmingham fork so it's likely a transitional model from around 1960.
02-05-23, 12:41 PM
Standard Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
02-05-23, 02:36 PM
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,863
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2300 Post(s)
Liked 2,066 Times
in
1,260 Posts
It's the other way actually. The 'D' fork caps were early 60s while the big plain silver crown caps were typical of most all of the Birmingham manufacturer's forks before 1960.
02-06-23, 10:49 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,604
Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
125 Posts
The brake levers, plastic cable pulley, reflectors in the pedals (if that's what I'm seeing in the photo) and the angle of the shifter all point to later 1960s as well. About 1960 or so SA flipped the text on the shifter upside down.
02-07-23, 07:50 PM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,452 Times
in
1,559 Posts
Likes For thumpism:
02-07-23, 08:34 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,238
Mentioned: 485 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked 6,898 Times
in
2,665 Posts
Reasonably well preserved (including Brooks B.72 saddles) his and hers Raleigh Sports in MA for $200 (which is twice as much as I'd pay, fwiw):
https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...586716132.html
https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...586716132.html
02-08-23, 12:13 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,604
Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times
in
125 Posts
If the saddles are good and ride-able, $200 is worth it for just them alone. Good B-72s going for what they do these days...
Likes For Salubrious:
02-08-23, 02:02 PM
Senior Member
Reasonably well preserved (including Brooks B.72 saddles) his and hers Raleigh Sports in MA for $200 (which is twice as much as I'd pay, fwiw):
https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...586716132.html
https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...586716132.html
Likes For adventurepdx:
02-08-23, 02:04 PM
Junior Member
I've got a single speed Dunelt that I fixed up a bit a few years ago, the consensus then was that mine was a 59-60 model.
Mine has seen minimal use since I'm still looking for a better set of Endrick rims for it. The rear rim has no chrome left, its badly pitted and basically just bare steel.
I had a decent pair I was going to use on it but ended up using them on another bike I was working on.
Before and after a lot of cleaning, some air brush touch up work, and strategic polishing to preserve as much of the original finish and decal work as i could.
It looks good, especially considering what it looked like when I first found it. The worst part is that its not my size, at 6ft 3in tall, its a bit small for me.
Mine has seen minimal use since I'm still looking for a better set of Endrick rims for it. The rear rim has no chrome left, its badly pitted and basically just bare steel.
I had a decent pair I was going to use on it but ended up using them on another bike I was working on.
Before and after a lot of cleaning, some air brush touch up work, and strategic polishing to preserve as much of the original finish and decal work as i could.
It looks good, especially considering what it looked like when I first found it. The worst part is that its not my size, at 6ft 3in tall, its a bit small for me.
02-08-23, 09:45 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,238
Mentioned: 485 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked 6,898 Times
in
2,665 Posts
Man, I'd like to find this mythical place that you and some other people here on this thread live in, where paying $200 for a pair (a pair!) of Sports in decent condition, both with intact B-72 saddles, is "twice as much" as you would pay. Here in Portland one of those bikes would go for $200 easily. One.
Likes For nlerner: