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#3951
Elitist
Thread Starter
BTW, when I say that the 500M is "easy", I mean easy conceptually. Just like the Dead Lift is "easy". Get the bar off of the ground.
Everyone who can ride a fixed gear can do a 500M time trial. To excel at a simple event is very difficult.
Everyone who can ride a fixed gear can do a 500M time trial. To excel at a simple event is very difficult.
#3952
Senior Member
I know there was a bit of a buzz around it when Stages first came out, but have any of you guys used the GXP compatible road crank arm on ther sram omnium crankset? If so, are you using pedal spacers on the driveside arm to correct for q factor differences?
I've decided to make the leap and begin training with power, but with serious training occurring on three of my bikes, one powermeter that is compatible with all of them is really appealing.
I've decided to make the leap and begin training with power, but with serious training occurring on three of my bikes, one powermeter that is compatible with all of them is really appealing.
#3953
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
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I know there was a bit of a buzz around it when Stages first came out, but have any of you guys used the GXP compatible road crank arm on ther sram omnium crankset? If so, are you using pedal spacers on the driveside arm to correct for q factor differences?
I've decided to make the leap and begin training with power, but with serious training occurring on three of my bikes, one powermeter that is compatible with all of them is really appealing.
I've decided to make the leap and begin training with power, but with serious training occurring on three of my bikes, one powermeter that is compatible with all of them is really appealing.
I'm not nearly picky enough to shim, or space the pedals for Q factor. I haven't noticed the Q factor at all. That said, I am really close to THE WORST about nitpicky details like that.
#3954
Senior Member
#3955
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Apparently, though, if you rotate the PM 180 degrees on the crank arm, it WILL read negative torque values.
#3956
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 607
Bikes: Serotta steel track bike, Specialized MTB
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You aren't looking for absolute max rpm. There is a sweet spot of RPM and Torque where power is maximized. It's around 120-135 RPM. Over 140 is too much.
Max speed is directly related to your 500M time. Higher max speed, faster 500M time. So you don't have to do a full 500M to see how your progress is coming.
If your max speeds are not progressing, then you may need to change your program or you are maxed out.
Max speed is directly related to your 500M time. Higher max speed, faster 500M time. So you don't have to do a full 500M to see how your progress is coming.
If your max speeds are not progressing, then you may need to change your program or you are maxed out.
I just found out that my posture was wrong when I was sprinting.
So my max speed in 55x12 gearing increased by 5km/h
#3957
I know there was a bit of a buzz around it when Stages first came out, but have any of you guys used the GXP compatible road crank arm on ther sram omnium crankset? If so, are you using pedal spacers on the driveside arm to correct for q factor differences?
I've decided to make the leap and begin training with power, but with serious training occurring on three of my bikes, one powermeter that is compatible with all of them is really appealing.
I've decided to make the leap and begin training with power, but with serious training occurring on three of my bikes, one powermeter that is compatible with all of them is really appealing.
I have a track DA stages, and that works fine.
I also had a handful of road units, and twice I had frequent issues with signal drop-out - to the point where it wasn't a power meter, it was just an occasional random number generator. I complained and Stages would send me a new unit. Something to keep in mind.
#3958
Senior Member
So I haven't really experienced this in other sports, I guess the closest I've come is Tabata sessions, but does anyone else throw up after intense efforts, particularly VO2 max or neuromuscular work?
Did my first Kilo training sessions today - 4 reps with about 20 minutes break between them and clocked my PB at 1:06. Immediately got off the bike to throw up after crossing the line. Is it just my body not used to digging that deep and having difficulty processing lactate? Do you develop a tolerance for it, or should I just make sure there's a bin nearby at whatever track I'm riding on?
Did my first Kilo training sessions today - 4 reps with about 20 minutes break between them and clocked my PB at 1:06. Immediately got off the bike to throw up after crossing the line. Is it just my body not used to digging that deep and having difficulty processing lactate? Do you develop a tolerance for it, or should I just make sure there's a bin nearby at whatever track I'm riding on?
#3959
I'd say if you vomit after a kilo, you're doing it right. A lot of people can't figure out how to get their body to go that deep. Their self-preservation instincts kick in, for better or for worse.
#3961
Elitist
Thread Starter
Did my first Kilo training sessions today - 4 reps with about 20 minutes break between them and clocked my PB at 1:06. Immediately got off the bike to throw up after crossing the line. Is it just my body not used to digging that deep and having difficulty processing lactate? Do you develop a tolerance for it, or should I just make sure there's a bin nearby at whatever track I'm riding on?
4 reps with about 20 minutes break between them
You don't train for The Kilo by doing Kilos. It will be highly unpleasant and you won't get as fast as you would if you used other training programs. One could be on a programmed designed around the Kilo and only do a handful all year...including State/Regionals and Nationals.
The general idea is to train the Kilo's components individually then bring them all together on race day. Sorta like this:
You can do "1 kilometer efforts". Those aren't "Kilos". To differentiate:
A "1 kilometer effort" is an effort that spans 1KM, kinda like a "rolling 1K" where you do a steady-state effort that starts from the boards with a rolling start. The assignment might be to "Maintain X mph the entire time. Then next time do X+2 mph the entire time..." in blocks.
A "Kilo" is an all-out, give it all you got, maximal effort from a standing start where you leave it all on the track. These are very hard. Some may say, "I can do those all day!", that pretty much means that they aren't going maximal. The body can't do these all day. The key is "maximal".
#3962
So I haven't really experienced this in other sports, I guess the closest I've come is Tabata sessions, but does anyone else throw up after intense efforts, particularly VO2 max or neuromuscular work?
Did my first Kilo training sessions today - 4 reps with about 20 minutes break between them and clocked my PB at 1:06. Immediately got off the bike to throw up after crossing the line. Is it just my body not used to digging that deep and having difficulty processing lactate? Do you develop a tolerance for it, or should I just make sure there's a bin nearby at whatever track I'm riding on?
Did my first Kilo training sessions today - 4 reps with about 20 minutes break between them and clocked my PB at 1:06. Immediately got off the bike to throw up after crossing the line. Is it just my body not used to digging that deep and having difficulty processing lactate? Do you develop a tolerance for it, or should I just make sure there's a bin nearby at whatever track I'm riding on?
#3963
Elitist
Thread Starter
I guess it all depends on how much you put into it. Let's say you were working on pacing, your line, or position on the bike, you can do rolling 1KM steady-state effort at the same lighter pace that you would do a 4K effort and it wouldn't hurt that much.
It's the standing start that makes the Kilo hurt so much.
#3964
Lapped 3x
The timing for the kilo (approximately 1 minute), is sort of a No-Mans Land for training. If you trained doing just Kilos, you would probably not make much progress, except maybe for your standing start if you were at least fresh for your reps.
The Kilo bridges 3 different energy systems in one maximal effort. It's very confusing for the body to adapt and repair itself with this type of effort. It literally doesn't know what to do with itself after being subject to that sort of effort. Typically what ends up happening is the Aerobic system ends up making most of the adaptations because that is the system that the body finishes the effort with, it's the system that is still being taxed after the effort is over, and therefore the one that leaves the largest "imprint" on the body's nervous system. The problem is that the aerobic system is the one that recovers the easiest, and so this "false imprint" influences how you recover the most.
A decent Kilo program will have at least 3 Kilo specific workouts in it's cycle. Standing 125m starts, Rolling 500m (come down the banking to get up to race speed before the line), and 15s ON/15s REST for 3-5 minutes/set intervals would be a decent sample Kilo program.
The Kilo bridges 3 different energy systems in one maximal effort. It's very confusing for the body to adapt and repair itself with this type of effort. It literally doesn't know what to do with itself after being subject to that sort of effort. Typically what ends up happening is the Aerobic system ends up making most of the adaptations because that is the system that the body finishes the effort with, it's the system that is still being taxed after the effort is over, and therefore the one that leaves the largest "imprint" on the body's nervous system. The problem is that the aerobic system is the one that recovers the easiest, and so this "false imprint" influences how you recover the most.
A decent Kilo program will have at least 3 Kilo specific workouts in it's cycle. Standing 125m starts, Rolling 500m (come down the banking to get up to race speed before the line), and 15s ON/15s REST for 3-5 minutes/set intervals would be a decent sample Kilo program.
#3965
Newbie
Did my first Kilo training sessions today - 4 reps with about 20 minutes break between them and clocked my PB at 1:06. Immediately got off the bike to throw up after crossing the line. Is it just my body not used to digging that deep and having difficulty processing lactate? Do you develop a tolerance for it, or should I just make sure there's a bin nearby at whatever track I'm riding on?
#3966
If you do this on a regular basis buy a pack of hospital type disposable and sealable vomit bags such as these:
https://www.amazon.com/Disposable-Vo...tal+vomit+bags
#3967
Senior Member
Erin uses one - with no spacers or nuthin'. It's worked fine for him.
I have a track DA stages, and that works fine.
I also had a handful of road units, and twice I had frequent issues with signal drop-out - to the point where it wasn't a power meter, it was just an occasional random number generator. I complained and Stages would send me a new unit. Something to keep in mind.
I have a track DA stages, and that works fine.
I also had a handful of road units, and twice I had frequent issues with signal drop-out - to the point where it wasn't a power meter, it was just an occasional random number generator. I complained and Stages would send me a new unit. Something to keep in mind.
#3968
Elitist
Thread Starter
I dunno man. What might power give you over a head unit that tracks speed, cadence, and HR over time? If you are doing pursuits, your HR is maybe, what, 10s behind what your legs are doing? And with stages, you are only gonna get the info from 1 leg
#3969
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
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What are good choices for head units that track speed, cadence and heart rate over time? I'm not interested in a power meter but am interested in a better choice to collect this information and look at it after training.
#3970
Senior Member
Jesus, that's overkill. I'd guess that 2 of those efforts were "junk" for training as your body was probably tapped-out by that point.
You can do "1 kilometer efforts". Those aren't "Kilos". To differentiate:
A "1 kilometer effort" is an effort that spans 1KM, kinda like a "rolling 1K" where you do a steady-state effort that starts from the boards with a rolling start. The assignment might be to "Maintain X mph the entire time. Then next time do X+2 mph the entire time..." in blocks.
A "Kilo" is an all-out, give it all you got, maximal effort from a standing start where you leave it all on the track. These are very hard. Some may say, "I can do those all day!", that pretty much means that they aren't going maximal. The body can't do these all day. The key is "maximal".
I'm still working my way through Up Up Up and the few other guides available on track sprinting, so I'll refrain from asking noob questions until I've read them but all but one thing I couldn't find an answer to was pacing. Does the concept of negative splits apply to the kilo as well or are you trying to keep the same pace throughout the effort?
Thanks again for the advice. It's much appreciated.
Last edited by SyntaxMonstr; 01-28-17 at 03:27 AM.
#3971
Senior Member
The timing for the kilo (approximately 1 minute), is sort of a No-Mans Land for training. If you trained doing just Kilos, you would probably not make much progress, except maybe for your standing start if you were at least fresh for your reps.
The Kilo bridges 3 different energy systems in one maximal effort. It's very confusing for the body to adapt and repair itself with this type of effort. It literally doesn't know what to do with itself after being subject to that sort of effort. Typically what ends up happening is the Aerobic system ends up making most of the adaptations because that is the system that the body finishes the effort with, it's the system that is still being taxed after the effort is over, and therefore the one that leaves the largest "imprint" on the body's nervous system. The problem is that the aerobic system is the one that recovers the easiest, and so this "false imprint" influences how you recover the most.
A decent Kilo program will have at least 3 Kilo specific workouts in it's cycle. Standing 125m starts, Rolling 500m (come down the banking to get up to race speed before the line), and 15s ON/15s REST for 3-5 minutes/set intervals would be a decent sample Kilo program.
The Kilo bridges 3 different energy systems in one maximal effort. It's very confusing for the body to adapt and repair itself with this type of effort. It literally doesn't know what to do with itself after being subject to that sort of effort. Typically what ends up happening is the Aerobic system ends up making most of the adaptations because that is the system that the body finishes the effort with, it's the system that is still being taxed after the effort is over, and therefore the one that leaves the largest "imprint" on the body's nervous system. The problem is that the aerobic system is the one that recovers the easiest, and so this "false imprint" influences how you recover the most.
A decent Kilo program will have at least 3 Kilo specific workouts in it's cycle. Standing 125m starts, Rolling 500m (come down the banking to get up to race speed before the line), and 15s ON/15s REST for 3-5 minutes/set intervals would be a decent sample Kilo program.
#3973
Elitist
Thread Starter
Going from a reasonable 1:40 on your first effort to a blazing 1:06 on your 4th sounds dubious. I could have happened, but newbies are notorious for reporting abnormally fast times when they first start training. Either by doing something wrong like getting a push or starting at the wrong location on the track or by having the stopwatch person not do a good job at timing.
You are gonna have to do it again for yourself. And maybe record video of it so you can time it yourself later on the computer.
I'm not trying to take the wind out of your sail as people do exist who can ride a 1:06 on the first few days on the track...but it's highly unlikely.
What's worse is if you become known as "the guy who rode a 1:06 during his first kilo" and never live up to the hype later because the 1:06 didn't really happen like you thought it did.
Is that Masters or just general Elite? I thought the qualifying time for Glasgow 2014 was 1:04. Also, is there any quantifiable data on how much of a difference indoor v outdoor (wood v cement) tracks make on time? Is it similar to equipment where tri-spokes/discs save X amount of time/power all things being equal?
Thanks again for the advice. It's much appreciated.
Thanks again for the advice. It's much appreciated.
"Elites" = Ages 18+ (these are the fastest.)
"Masters" = Ages 35+ (or 40+, depending on your location). Racing is age-grouped in generally 5 year increments (40-44, 45-49, etc..)
"Masters" sounds like it's the top level like in the Masters Golf Tournament, but it really means the old guys.
Don't worry yourself trying to calculate what your time will be with aero equipment, wooden track, indoors, etc... The math just isn't there. You might set yourself up for disappointment. You can try. I did...A LOT. TRUST ME. As Baby Puke said, "You can't Kilo with a slide rule." There are simply too many variables...the biggest one is on top of the saddle.
#3974
Elitist
Thread Starter
the timing for the kilo (approximately 1 minute), is sort of a no-mans land for training. If you trained doing just kilos, you would probably not make much progress, except maybe for your standing start if you were at least fresh for your reps.
The kilo bridges 3 different energy systems in one maximal effort. It's very confusing for the body to adapt and repair itself with this type of effort. It literally doesn't know what to do with itself after being subject to that sort of effort. Typically what ends up happening is the aerobic system ends up making most of the adaptations because that is the system that the body finishes the effort with, it's the system that is still being taxed after the effort is over, and therefore the one that leaves the largest "imprint" on the body's nervous system. The problem is that the aerobic system is the one that recovers the easiest, and so this "false imprint" influences how you recover the most.
A decent kilo program will have at least 3 kilo specific workouts in it's cycle. Standing 125m starts, rolling 500m (come down the banking to get up to race speed before the line), and 15s on/15s rest for 3-5 minutes/set intervals would be a decent sample kilo program.
The kilo bridges 3 different energy systems in one maximal effort. It's very confusing for the body to adapt and repair itself with this type of effort. It literally doesn't know what to do with itself after being subject to that sort of effort. Typically what ends up happening is the aerobic system ends up making most of the adaptations because that is the system that the body finishes the effort with, it's the system that is still being taxed after the effort is over, and therefore the one that leaves the largest "imprint" on the body's nervous system. The problem is that the aerobic system is the one that recovers the easiest, and so this "false imprint" influences how you recover the most.
A decent kilo program will have at least 3 kilo specific workouts in it's cycle. Standing 125m starts, rolling 500m (come down the banking to get up to race speed before the line), and 15s on/15s rest for 3-5 minutes/set intervals would be a decent sample kilo program.
#3975
Elitist
Thread Starter
I also used a Garmin 500. But, it only sampled every second. It was OK. Be sure to get dedicated separate speed and cadence sensors. Never use GPS for speed data. It's OK for long road rides, but garbage for track work. Riding in circles confuses the satellite and/or head unit and your head unit will think you are teleporting from one part of the track to the next...in a straight line and not account for the fact that you rode quickly around a curve resulting in slower recorded speeds.