Tsuru

via compcyclist's twitter: If you have 20 minutes to kill, this is a nice 3yr old article. https://is.gd/chTBt

The Lemond/Landis phone conversation part is interesting.

merlinextraligh

Obviously there's a huge credibility issue. However, there almost always are credibility issues in prosecuting crimes. The witnesses to crimes are often criminals themseleves, and have motives to lie. Yet people get convicted on the basis of testimony of such people all the time.

There are a number of ways to evaluate the credibility of a witness. The witness' past statements is only one of them.

Others include is the Witness' testimony consistent with the testimony of other witnesses? Yes. Is it consistent with physical evidence ? Yes.
Is the witness' testimony against their own self interest? Yes. Does the testimony contain specific verifiable details? Yes. Is it consistent with common sense? Yes

And did the witness make prior consistent statements before any motive to lie arose? This last one may be key. If he really has detailed journals referencing these people contemporaneous to the events, it would add a whole bunch of credibility to this.

So it's way too simplistic to just dismiss Landis' allegations out of hand because he's a known liar.

$ick3nin.vend3t

Not gonna be missing what will be the best, most dramatic Tour of 010....

Eclectus

I liked watching Barry hit dingers. I liked watching his dad. Actually I liked watching the Willies, Mays and McCovey.

I talked to this football player who said he used steroids, in high school, in 1974. My best friend in HS was using HGH.There were no tests, no penalties for using PEDs. They work. That's why athletes use them.

spingineer

He got caught, plain and simple. But instead of taking the punishment (like Basso, Millar to name a few), he vehemently denies ever taking it. Now, he finally admits doing it ... how is anyone supposed to trust a guy with this track record? Oh, and he decides to announce this right when the Tour of California and Giro d'Italia is going on. What a friggin' loser.

I always thought the year he won the Tour de France was suspect. How can you lose so much time on one day, then beat the whole field by yourself by the same time margin without the aid of something? When I heard he was accused of doping, that didn't come as a surprise to me at all.

fly:yes/land:no

chain of custody would be pretty tough to prove imho, especially considering the sample was stored for 6 years before testing. the point is probably moot for now, as armstrong has stated that he is not pursuing legal action against landis.

Uncle Jams Army

Actually, it is quite simple to dismiss Landis' allegations. There is no way a prosecutor would attempt to prove anybody else doped based on the word of a known, psychopathic liar. You'd have to have some overwhelming physical evidence to support his testimony to even get a prosecutor to entertain indicting someone (assuming a crime had been committed here).

ndbiker

I'm not sure exactly why FLandis waited until now too drop this bomb. I doubt it was a sudden latent guilt. If that were it I'd wait awhile and write that come clean book when people have forgotten what a farce I've made. He does open himself up to defamation and liable suits so if it's money it's a risky bet. Perhaps he does have something other than his alleged observations to go on and the money will begin to flow to keep the evidence suppressed and all he has to do is continue to look like a lying idiot. I watched agog at Floyds performance in the 06 TDF and was really disappointed when he was accused of doping. I've always felt in my gut he was lying even though I hoped it wasn't true. The sad part about it is that I believe him now. I believe that Lance, Levi even Dave Z are dopers too. The real tragedy is that I am beginning not to care. I also believe that nearly all the top level cyclists are dopers and have been for, well, forever.

Tsuru

Yeah! The Giro's been great, eh?

Smoked

The way Versus has been F'in this thing up... doubt it..

pearcem

I agree with what you are saying. Some of those are reasons why I said that unfortunately many of his allegations probably true, I was just trying to point of the problem with the mentality of, "well he cheated, so he knows the who's who of cheating, and now he came clean, so we should listen to him". He has basically made a career out of denying his involvement with this whole mess over the past few years, and with some of the statements he has made, I see this as a little bit more than a typical situation where the accuser's credibility is questionable. There is plenty of other evidence to look at that supports these claims. I personally don't see the point in believing a man who has fallen from the top and dedicated the past few years of his life to ruining his reputation very rational.

botto 

go away little boy.

Staarkhand

The theme in cycling, especially it seems in the last year or so, is riders getting busted and when they eventually confess to everything they talk about how many tests they passed and how they worked with doctors who had inside knowledge of how to beat testing protocols. Was it Kohl who said the biological passport could be used to help riders adjust their dosing to beat the tests? Basically they're all saying that they beat the system for years and could have continued to do so but they got unlucky or screwed up.

That's one reason I don't think it's unfair to suspect riders who have never failed a drug test. The other is, like RX points out, we catch more people through busting doctors and suppliers than we do through tests - loads of athletes, not just cyclists, are convicted/suspended without ever failing a test. And when the mountain of evidence is such as that against Lance, with 6 people saying they have first hand experience, not to mention people like Vaughters who imply as much but haven't gone on record, always has and still does surround himself with questionable people, publically hires a personal doctor to publish testing results during the off seaon and then oh btw cuts the program for 'logistical difficulties', it strays into the realm of wishful thinking to say he's always been clean just because he's never failed a drug test, oh which he has, I mean never been punished for failing a test.

fly:yes/land:no

the reason that canseco and hunter were okay was because there was later information that emerged proving what they had said. without the mitchell report, i think canseco gets sued. without the victor conte evidence and the skipped drug test, hunter doesn't look too great. while the accusations may have led to the more intense scrutiny which ultimately sprung the trap, there has to be something more than accusations. i'm not saying that one will not show up, but there is no more tangible information about lance now than there was yesterday. if landis can produce something, okay, but i think it will take a third party bringing in some BIG information.

merlinextraligh

I'm not suggesting anyone's going to get charged with a crime.

I doubt USADA is going to do much of anything either.

I am suggesting that there is a whole lot of reason to believe that some or all of what Landis is saying is true.

$ick3nin.vend3t

Not gonna be too long now before the ToC overshadows The Giro.

botto's in full agreement.

carpediemracing 

Just to point out something - Floyd is saying he started with the whole dope thing June 2002. The doping statute of limitations is 8 years. In other words next month the stuff he's experienced starts gets tossed legally. He said he wanted to get it on record before June. Which happens to be right now.

He also told Neil@Road that he didn't intend the emails to get leaked - he was requesting amnesty for all the riders involved.
https://neilbrowne.com/2010/05/landis...rivate-e-mail/.

cdr

Bobsled

See, we are all wrong. He is a good guy afterall.

Ygduf

Eh, I feel like he's unable to clear his name, knows everyone else is guilty as well, so decides to come clean and out everyone else in the sport as well. He's cycling's Canseco.

And, everyone should remember that Canseco was eventually proven correct about most everything he said. Love him or hate him, I lean towards believing him.

aggro_jo

https://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010...etty-boy-floyd

A pretty good read (link borrowed from a local board)

botto 

are you really that much of an idiot?

rjones28 

Sports generally has a performance-enhancing culture. Look at the advertisers here and on the other sites you visit.

Just on this site:

"are you tired of being tired?" take this pill or drink this drink.

Got a race coming up? Get some Race Day Boost.

The sales pitches kinda sound like they are selling PEDs to me.

Laggard

Jesus Christo you're an idiot.

TOC will likely go the way of the Tour Du Pont and other forgotten American stage races.

Dubbayoo

But wait another month and nobody needs amnesty? What da f....

The Weak Link

Say it ain't so, Joe. I want to believe.....