What's your tandem weigh?
#401
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#402
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MSC Zion tandem in stock configuration: 19.3 kgs. This bike is going to be heavily modified (essentially: stripped to a bare frame) with a Fox 36 Talas fork, Hope Evo Pro II hubs with Notubes Arch EX rims, Hope V4 brakes and a Middleburn crankset. Don't know if it's going to be lighter that way but all these goodies are just plain nice
#403
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And the price per saved pound is...? Just a little dig there. We went through essentially the same weight-loss program 2 yrs ago, and so I think I know in rough numbers. Nice clean bike, by the way! Looks faaaast.
#405
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^ it adds up quick. When we first decided to buy a Calfee, I figured in the $10,000 range. I was quickly disabused of that notion.
But we'll use it for years, and typically put 4,000-5,000 miles a year on our tandem so it will be amortized over a large base.
And I made rather expensive choices, Tetra as oppossed to Dragonfly saves $2100. Ultegra instead of Dura Ace would have probably save a grand.
Cheaper seatposts, stems, and handlebars would save several hundred. Cheaper but still nice wheels could have saved $1500.
But in for a penny in for a pound.
But we'll use it for years, and typically put 4,000-5,000 miles a year on our tandem so it will be amortized over a large base.
And I made rather expensive choices, Tetra as oppossed to Dragonfly saves $2100. Ultegra instead of Dura Ace would have probably save a grand.
Cheaper seatposts, stems, and handlebars would save several hundred. Cheaper but still nice wheels could have saved $1500.
But in for a penny in for a pound.
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#406
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^ this reminds of a couple of years ago when our friends decided to buy a Calfee and he got a quote from them. He was very excited when it came back around 8k. The excitement was tempered somewhat when I told him you realize that is just for the frame. They proceeded ahead and now say it was one of the best investments in enjoyment they have ever make. We would have to agree.
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Or you could go my route: Buy your Calfee frame second hand from twocicle ($3500), do crazy deal shopping for light but affordable parts ($3500 budget) and end up with a 25.2 lb tandem for $7k. Definitely a great investment on our part, and 2 years later, the only problem has been a faulty seatpost head that creaked and was replaced free of charge with a new/improved model by the manufacturer (Aerozine).
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As I was advised to do a while back, I am now posting the new bike. Like Merlin, we also started off with a 47 lb Burley Duet. 20+ pounds is a lot to cut off a bike. Although its probably mostly that its new and we like it. Honestly, the best thing is that it fits both of us so much better.
Major points:
Landshark, Ultegra Di2, R785 Hydraulic Discs, All mountain 29er carbon wheels. 25.35 pounds according to my scale - though the bike shop had it at 24.9 lb without the computers on it.
Major points:
Landshark, Ultegra Di2, R785 Hydraulic Discs, All mountain 29er carbon wheels. 25.35 pounds according to my scale - though the bike shop had it at 24.9 lb without the computers on it.
#411
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^ Do you know what the frame alone weighs? It would appear that it has to be noticeably lighter than a Calfee Dragonfly.
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You could get lost and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#414
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I'm guessing our wheels weight about 1650 grams. (based on published weight of ENVE 65's, and adding some for the extra spokes, and heavier aerocomp spokes). So that could explain 1/2lb to a pound depending on what those wheels weigh.
Comparing the rest of the build, we save a few hundred grams with Dura Ace versus Ultegra, and the Speedplay pedals. Other than brakes, the rest looks like a wash.
And the Landshark has to add at least a pound with front and rear disc and the disc fork.
Netting that all out, I'm guessing the Landshark frame has to be about a pound lighter for it come out at the same weight with a dual disc setup
Comparing the rest of the build, we save a few hundred grams with Dura Ace versus Ultegra, and the Speedplay pedals. Other than brakes, the rest looks like a wash.
And the Landshark has to add at least a pound with front and rear disc and the disc fork.
Netting that all out, I'm guessing the Landshark frame has to be about a pound lighter for it come out at the same weight with a dual disc setup
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
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I'm guessing our wheels weight about 1650 grams. (based on published weight of ENVE 65's, and adding some for the extra spokes, and heavier aerocomp spokes). So that could explain 1/2lb to a pound depending on what those wheels weigh.
Comparing the rest of the build, we save a few hundred grams with Dura Ace versus Ultegra, and the Speedplay pedals. Other than brakes, the rest looks like a wash.
And the Landshark has to add at least a pound with front and rear disc and the disc fork.
Netting that all out, I'm guessing the Landshark frame has to be about a pound lighter for it come out at the same weight with a dual disc setup
Comparing the rest of the build, we save a few hundred grams with Dura Ace versus Ultegra, and the Speedplay pedals. Other than brakes, the rest looks like a wash.
And the Landshark has to add at least a pound with front and rear disc and the disc fork.
Netting that all out, I'm guessing the Landshark frame has to be about a pound lighter for it come out at the same weight with a dual disc setup
#416
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Possible I'm overestimating the weight penalty of the disc brakes. But other than our wheels, there's not a lot of extra weight on our bike.
One other factor in the frame weight for ours would be that it's a large/small, and we did go with the extra stiffness option which I believe uses a larger top tube.
One other factor in the frame weight for ours would be that it's a large/small, and we did go with the extra stiffness option which I believe uses a larger top tube.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
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I don't know the weight of the frame. John Slawta said that he was excited to build this bike because this was the first time he used nanotube resin on a tandem frame, and it was supposed to be 25% lighter by volume and slightly stronger. The size is roughly a medium/small in calfee terms. The top tube in particular looks skinnier than most calfees that I have seen. There are only two bits of metal in the frame: the eccentric and the derailleur hanger. The stoker bottom bracket is a PF30.
The wheels are roughly the same weight as the deeper ENVEs. Although I haven't weighed them separately, I estimate that they are 1600 grams. The rims are chinese-made all-mountain 29er carbon rims (425 grams each +/-), 30 mm outside/26 mm inside width, Sapim CX-Rays, brass nipples and DT Swiss 350 centerlock.
The fork is a Whiskey Parts No. 9 road fork, which I think is competitive with the ENVE on weight.
I think that you are overestimating the weight penalty for discs. The levers are 18 g heavier each. ST-9070 and R785 system. Add in disc calipers, pads and 180 mm rotors for a total of 496 g, subtract off the Dura Ace road calipers (297 grams), and you're left with 235 grams. And this is ignoring that hydraulic line is typically a bit lighter than cable and housing.
That's what I got. Can you tell that I geeked out a bit spec'ing this bike?
(Apparently there is even a gif emoji for this very "problem")
The wheels are roughly the same weight as the deeper ENVEs. Although I haven't weighed them separately, I estimate that they are 1600 grams. The rims are chinese-made all-mountain 29er carbon rims (425 grams each +/-), 30 mm outside/26 mm inside width, Sapim CX-Rays, brass nipples and DT Swiss 350 centerlock.
The fork is a Whiskey Parts No. 9 road fork, which I think is competitive with the ENVE on weight.
I think that you are overestimating the weight penalty for discs. The levers are 18 g heavier each. ST-9070 and R785 system. Add in disc calipers, pads and 180 mm rotors for a total of 496 g, subtract off the Dura Ace road calipers (297 grams), and you're left with 235 grams. And this is ignoring that hydraulic line is typically a bit lighter than cable and housing.
That's what I got. Can you tell that I geeked out a bit spec'ing this bike?
(Apparently there is even a gif emoji for this very "problem")
Last edited by TooMany; 07-10-15 at 07:58 PM.
#418
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Interesting. I assumed, without any real basis, that hydraulic lines and fluid would be heavier than cables
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
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What kind of tire pressure are you using on your all mtn. 29er rims? I'd be a little cautious of using high pressure for road purposes. Possibility of a tire blowing off.
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90/95 psi front and rear. The wide rim really bulbs out tires quite nice. 28 mm Conti GP4000s measure 33 mm across with a caliper and the 25 mm version measures 29 mm mounted up. The wearing contact patch looks about the same as similarly sized tire on a single with a more narrow rim.
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What doesn't kill you ...
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90/95 psi front and rear. The wide rim really bulbs out tires quite nice. 28 mm Conti GP4000s measure 33 mm across with a caliper and the 25 mm version measures 29 mm mounted up. The wearing contact patch looks about the same as similarly sized tire on a single with a more narrow rim.
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The shop where I bought the wheels (they refer to them as their house brand) said they will do 120 psi. I have no intention of ever getting them that high - as I said above, the contact patch is about right at 90/95. They are hooked carbon rims, in contrast to most others these days that are hookless and designed for lower pressure (mountain bike tires).
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As I was advised to do a while back, I am now posting the new bike. Like Merlin, we also started off with a 47 lb Burley Duet. 20+ pounds is a lot to cut off a bike. Although its probably mostly that its new and we like it. Honestly, the best thing is that it fits both of us so much better.
Major points:
Landshark, Ultegra Di2, R785 Hydraulic Discs, All mountain 29er carbon wheels. 25.35 pounds according to my scale - though the bike shop had it at 24.9 lb without the computers on it.
Major points:
Landshark, Ultegra Di2, R785 Hydraulic Discs, All mountain 29er carbon wheels. 25.35 pounds according to my scale - though the bike shop had it at 24.9 lb without the computers on it.
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