globecanvas

That's a particularly tough race to be out of shape for, it's not like you can surf the pack through all of those turns. I always found the left hander out of the bike path section to be the hardest to carry speed through.

I skipped it this year. I love the course but I just can't bear the Friday rush hour traffic to get there.

topflightpro

I've been running Deda Zero 100 bars on my bikes for a couple of years now and have been very happy with them.

I put a set on my track bike because I had an extra set that was a bit narrow - when I ordered them, I did not realize Deda measures O-O and not C-C. Anyway, I recently was doing a bunch of standing start work at the track, and I did not know it was possible to flex those bars that much. I know they were probably only flexing a few mm, but it felt like inches.

I think I need to save up for some legit track bars now.

mike868y

backside of the course was notable different this year. no bike path but two back to back 180s. i quite enjoyed it.

Harlan

If the new ring doesn't make it in time and you're doing KSR and need a 52/36 6800 chainring, let me know. I've got spares.

Ttoc6

Here is a picture of how my IAB position turned out. I kept the head down most of the race and just glance over the top of my glasses. Upon looking down, I realized this skin suit (a few years old at this point) was baggy in the chest... Hadn't noticed that. I also ripped out a pin during the only standing effort in the TT, so had a flappy number for half the race. Also, when I was getting dressed for the race, realized my shoe covers were completly ripped to shreds, so those didn't get worn either. And I sold my carbon race wheels the Thursday before this race. Realistically I gave away a lot of free time lol.

Any tips on getting the back flatter? I tend to do this thing where my back rolls rather than flattens. I had a fitter say I was sacrificing power (through lack of oxygen, I believe)because of it, but I don't really know.

Ygduf

you need to rehost your image, but regardless, there have been some very good cyclists with rounded backs.

Ttoc6

Good to know (fixed the post btw). Here is another from the crit later in the day( I'm in white on the C'dale). You can see it rounding out there. Good to know I'm not alone. I tried to correct it with PT work and stretches and such, but it didn't seem to help much. Core has never been a weak point of mine on the bike, so learning I "had a problem" was odd..

topflightpro

Have you considered a longer stem? It would stretch you out more, which could help flatten your back.

aaronmcd

Looks kinda like my own position as I desperately try to accommodate my comparably shorter legs. (I have my saddle low and barely above bars in order to reach bottom of peddle stroke, and then a shorter stem to try and open up the narrow hip angle cause by low saddle.) Let me know if there's a solution. Still have short cranks on my mind for next season.

miyata man

The roundness is a 'problem' when it results from a spare tire around the mid-section. I'll save the highly educational, well to be honest you'd look on it as a rant, sermonizing. Meeting some idealized personification of correctness is a way to lose

Feel free to imitate Merckx if you can though.

Ygduf

yeah - to me you look the same as all the other guys in that pic.

I definitely have a rounded back and it gets worse the deeper in I am. doesn't seem to impact lung volume in my case.

TheKillerPenguin

The photo angle isn't ideal but it sort of looks like your upper arm is greater than 90* to the ground, as in your shoulders are farther forward than your elbows? It's kind of hard to tell since the arms on your kit are all white and there's no shadow apparent, so maybe I'm wrong.

Ygduf

I agree. Too-small-bike or too-short-stem.

aaronmcd

The bike isn't too small, look at saddle height. It's pretty low, like I said earlier. And leg is extended a good amount at the bottom imo. The TT image also shows a low saddle. Maybe he can go longer for the stem, but that's not always an option depending on body geometry.

Doge

Junior is doing the USA National U23 Road Race (really a CR). I expect he will be competitive, but not a contender. His goal is to finish and not get dropped. I have higher hopes, but certainly not expecting soloing off the front. He has one teammate from juniors who will be there. They are buddies, but doing any team thing against the 2-3 pro teams and some of the Rally riders is just not going to get them anywhere. I think this is a survive thing.

It is a UCI race, so bike needs to be 15lbs.
There is 116m of climbing per 7.9klap with some punchy 8% spots and 23 laps so 2,668m or 8,671ft of climbing.https://ridewithgps.com/routes/19440493

The technical part...
I own, he rides, a 50mm profile, 25wide with 25.5 silk FMB set @~1790g
I own, he rides, a 25mm profile, 20.5wide, with 22 wide Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ 23s set @~1370g
The lighter are stiffer and have a wider stance. They would have to be less aero, but they are close. The spoke count is the same. The profile is close - cx-Ray vs Aerolite. Hubs are the same, although the 50mm are more broken in.

So roughly 400g less in the wheels.
I would have to add 400g more lead to the BB.

I expect he will be drafting, not soloing. Or...dropped.
The more I think about it the more I think the climbing wheels are the ones to use.

Give me your tech opinions. Doing tests on the course soloing will not tell the story, but of course will will do that. @7.9km - pretty easy.
So he's likely to go with what feels best. But a little discussion on this would be interesting.
@mollusk - Any opinion?
Total mass of bike stays the same. Giving up a wee bit on aero for in-the-pack riding with a lower MOI setup.

miyata man

Environmental factors moot any supposed declarations one way or the other and so on for however many wheelsets you cook up. The days before is when you need to be having this discussion. Same with tire pressure etc.

Maybe you should own and he should ride some modern 50mm wheels that don't weigh 1800g. There is my tech answer but the real one lies above.

Doge

That is rims, tires, glue, skewers, cassette - ready to ride. Few modern wheels 50mm/25wide with >25 wide tires are that weight.

Ttoc6

Bike is definitely not too small for me. I've only got 4-4.5 inches of seatpost showing. If anything I could probably fit on a 50. Running a zero setback seatpost (long story, but its the only thing a shop had after I had a mechanical in race) and a 110 -6* stem with bars that have a slight rise to the hoods. I'm not sure if in this picture I might have my elbows flared out to protect position, but I'll have to go dig around.

This is all the pictures from the crit which is the 2nd race I've done with this set up, so not many pictures of the position out there.
The rolling of my back is something I've noticed across bikes and fits. So I'm going to lean on the side of "if a lot of people do it, it's probably fine."

Doge

The arch in your back I would not be concerned about. I would open up hip/leg to torso if you can. I'd get that seat up a bit, maybe (really hard to tell from one picture) forward. You have quite a bend in the right extended knee. Highest TT power comes from stomping on the pedals, rather than turning circles. That is not what you want to do in a longer race, crit or RR, but it is what you want to do for a road bike TT.

If you were doing a long RR - the saddle would most likely be lower. You are doing an < 30 min TT.

Do you need a WB cage for that?

echappist

you mention below that the deep sections include mass of cassette, glue, and tires, and i'd assume the same applies to the light wheels.

In which case, 150g cassette + 400g tire leave 820g for wheel + glue (i guess 50g?). How does one build a 770g wheelset? 75g front hub, 150g rear hub, 36 spokes & nipples at 4.5g each leaves 380g for the rims. I'm not sure i know of any rim with that low of weight.

miyata man

Doge

I do. I have bigger heavier tires than that pictured 1720g setup. So I used 1,790g. The point was they are about ~400g difference.

It is the slight aero over weight in 8,700ft of climbing that makes it a hard choice.

ax1370RTR.jpg

1720g M5.JPG

topflightpro

Ttoc, while it's hard to make any conclusive statements about your fit given the photos, it looks like you are doing a pretty good job of rotating your hips, which normally helps flatten the back. I think your back is rounded because your stem is too short, and you are compensating by rounding your back.

This also jives with TKP's comments.

TheKillerPenguin

Eh, it just kinda looks like you could push your seat back a bit I guess if your flexibility can handle it. A few years ago when I really went all-in on racing my position was muuuuuch farther forward and tall. As my hamstrings and other muscles have developed I've been able to push my seat back without losing power and have gotten way more aero at the same time as making my bike feel less twitchy.

You should do what works for you though, and the photos aren't at the right angle to say anything conclusive.

TheKillerPenguin

Oh I just saw your IAB thing. It actually kinda looks like you need a longer stem more than anything. In the drops or on the hoods you have to be awfully upright.