Does 9-speed still make sense for new build?
#26
Senior Member
#27
Senior Member
My wife and I had this discussion yesterday when we had the opportunity to use most of the gears on our bikes. The questions we came up with were: Do people make use of all the gears they have; how many people actually do a double shift( both cassette and chainring)every time they shift to get the next higher or lower gear; Do most people do most of their shifting on the rear derailleur, skipping the intermediate gear jumps; Do most of us know where the where our next lower or higher gear is located?
My observations on club rides and my own habits lead me to believe we don't really utilize all the gears we already have. I find I do the most "complicated" and numerous shifts when trying to find that sweet spot on gently rolling terrain.
My opinion of the OP's question is that a 9 speed setup works well for touring.
My observations on club rides and my own habits lead me to believe we don't really utilize all the gears we already have. I find I do the most "complicated" and numerous shifts when trying to find that sweet spot on gently rolling terrain.
My opinion of the OP's question is that a 9 speed setup works well for touring.
(what makes brifters so much fun to ride with, the easy and fast shifts)
Another factor, just as big I figure, is that being a skinny guy with very average power, its always been to my advantage to be in the right gear at exactly the right time, just to help me along and be easier on my legs-I dont do lugging too high a gear very well like a guy with big strong legs.
Add a bunch of touring weight on my bike, and for me, it is really important for how my legs feel during a long ride to be in the right gear, and yes changing rollers are a good example of how being really efficient in your shifting makes a big difference in being the most efficient in your power output and leg muscle workout over a long day. Even when much younger, my leg muscles always appreciated keeping fairly close to similar cadences and exertion, just always seemed easier on the legs.
ps, I would add that the old half-step thing never interested me that much, yes it was better for getting nice half steps, but it was a lot a front shifting and increasing speeds in back kinda took care of the really big jumps between cassette shifts.
Last edited by djb; 05-18-15 at 07:41 AM.
#28
I have two sets of touring wheels. One with a 7 speed freewheel and the other with an 8 speed cassette. Combined with a Shimano MTB crankset in the front they provide enough evenly spaced gear choices for me. 13/32 on the freewheel, 11/32 on the cassette. Never had a problem finding replacements although I suppose that could change in the future.
Badger, I have Midge bars and like them also. What's that tall stem you're using? I have a quill steerer tube with a tall adapter to a clamp on threadless style On-One stem.
Badger, I have Midge bars and like them also. What's that tall stem you're using? I have a quill steerer tube with a tall adapter to a clamp on threadless style On-One stem.
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,568
Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.
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good question, I suspect not a big percentage of people. I think it depends on your interest in that sort of thing and other experience. In my case, part of my always thinking about what is the ideal gear comes from having had motorcycles, racing a narrow ranged powerband 2 stroke and having followed motor racing since I was a teenager, I tend always to think of being in the exact gear when I ride, its kind of hard wired for me and I do it without thinking--when I go up to a larger chainring, I shift down a gear or two in back, and vice versa, and how many rear changes I do depends on the situation and specific parts setup.
...
ps, I would add that the old half-step thing never interested me that much, yes it was better for getting nice half steps, but it was a lot a front shifting and increasing speeds in back kinda took care of the really big jumps between cassette shifts.
...
ps, I would add that the old half-step thing never interested me that much, yes it was better for getting nice half steps, but it was a lot a front shifting and increasing speeds in back kinda took care of the really big jumps between cassette shifts.
I commented above in post 13 that I use an 8 speed system. I have a triple crankset. I do not use the two most cross chained gears for each chainring, thus I actually use only 18 of my 24 gears. None of the 18 are redundant and I have a nice range of gears without any big holes in the range.
On my last tour, I used a half step setup on the middle and large chainrings by changing my large ring to a slightly smaller one. But that trip had so many short hills that I rarely used the half step capability since I was constantly upshifting or downshifting many gears at once with all those short little hills. Around home I use one and a half step, but I might use half step on future tours since it is easy to change a chainring.
But, my next trip is with my Rohloff bike, so half step by definition is not going to happen.
#30
afraid of whales
Shimano still makes 6/7 speed derailleurs as well as 8 and 9 speed. Maybe not Dura Ace level but it's been my experience that the lower level stuff works really well:
Universal Cycles -- Shimano RD-M590 Deore Rear Derailleurs - 9 Speed
And you can still get the 591, there's 240 in stock:
Universal Cycles -- Derailleurs and Parts > Mountain Derailleurs > Shimano Derailleurs
Yes, 9 speed made sense to me, I just built a new bike this year with 9 speed. My entire family is running 9 speed, I don't want to have anything else. If there's still 6 speed I feel safe staying with 9 speed.
I don't worry about using 10 speed cranksets with 9 speed shifters, it hasn't been a problem for my setups 2x and 3x.
Universal Cycles -- Shimano RD-M590 Deore Rear Derailleurs - 9 Speed
And you can still get the 591, there's 240 in stock:
Universal Cycles -- Derailleurs and Parts > Mountain Derailleurs > Shimano Derailleurs
Yes, 9 speed made sense to me, I just built a new bike this year with 9 speed. My entire family is running 9 speed, I don't want to have anything else. If there's still 6 speed I feel safe staying with 9 speed.
I don't worry about using 10 speed cranksets with 9 speed shifters, it hasn't been a problem for my setups 2x and 3x.
#31
Senior Member
Not sure on the brand. I want to say Kalloy but not positive. I picked it up at a swap meet and wanted it because of the rise and the two bolt front bracket so I didn't have to thread the bars through a normal quill stem. I was afraid the reach might not be enough but it is perfect for this build.
#32
Senior Member
When touring with a load momentum is a big thing for me and the last thing I want to do is loose that while try to decide if I should be shifting front or rear. Front shifts are slower and sometimes less positive when chugging up a hill with a load. When I'm on the big ring in front I just shift the rear as needed until I get to the point of too much chain angle and then drop down in front.
#33
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#34
Senior Member
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post17815156
#35
deleteme
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Yes, 9 speed made sense to me, I just built a new bike this year with 9 speed. My entire family is running 9 speed, I don't want to have anything else. If there's still 6 speed I feel safe staying with 9 speed.
I don't worry about using 10 speed cranksets with 9 speed shifters, it hasn't been a problem for my setups 2x and 3x.
As long as Walmart sells freewheel bikes I feel safe at the 7/8 level.
#36
Senior Member
My immediate reaction when I read the OP's question was, "damn straight anything over 8 speed is crazy". But most people seem to have seen it as a 9 vs 10 speed issue, or thrown in Rohloff. I have some opinions, but I would need to know which way the OPis tending. Subsequent posts didn't really clarify maters. If really planing on the tour of Africa, Rohloff makes the most sense.
#37
Senior Member
My 9 X 3 tourer will NEVER be changed wrt gearing as long as I can get parts. It has stood the test of time. The 48 spoke 26" wheels are basically bulletproof. Once when new I had rear flats because of burrs working thru the rim tape but sandpaper and more/thicker tape solved that. Another issue (once) was with the Shimano RD losing a screw, the "black bottom wheel" fell off and ... it went into the rear wheel as I was pedalling. Broke 2 spokes and bent 2. Hitch-hiked all day in the Australian outback to get it fixed and then continued.
My 3rd big tour ( 2700 km and 6 weeks) is coming up. Only thing I may change is the tyres as they are +3 years old. The bike is heavy ~ 40 lbs (unloaded) with the front rack not shown in the picture.
Arvon Cycles "Expedition Grade" Touring Bike with S and S Couplings
My 3rd big tour ( 2700 km and 6 weeks) is coming up. Only thing I may change is the tyres as they are +3 years old. The bike is heavy ~ 40 lbs (unloaded) with the front rack not shown in the picture.
Arvon Cycles "Expedition Grade" Touring Bike with S and S Couplings
#38
aka Timi
Thread Starter
Does 9-speed still make sense for new build?
OP here. I'm doing some really hard thinking here... Thanks for throwing some great thoughts into the pot.
I think I'll pop over to england and visit the Thorn shop (I have family in england). Maybe a complete bike rather than a build would be economically wiser... Yes, TdA is my goal. It doesn't get talked about much here. I'm sure I'll be starting new threads to gather more wisdom from you guys until then...
I think I'll pop over to england and visit the Thorn shop (I have family in england). Maybe a complete bike rather than a build would be economically wiser... Yes, TdA is my goal. It doesn't get talked about much here. I'm sure I'll be starting new threads to gather more wisdom from you guys until then...
#39
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Bikes: Old steel GT's, for touring and commuting
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Pffft
Only a 14 speed disc Rohloff with Dyad rims make sense to me. Take extra oil, cogs and tools. Buy chains along the way.
I also used a SA drum dyno up front. Not the best stopper but now 15,000+ miles with zero worries and not half done yet.
100% useable and available gears with no gaps. I have 22 to 120 GIs and used them ALL plenty. Could use a 20 GI but I ain't dropping 10 off the top. I was passing Honda 150s on the downhill. ha
Only a 14 speed disc Rohloff with Dyad rims make sense to me. Take extra oil, cogs and tools. Buy chains along the way.
I also used a SA drum dyno up front. Not the best stopper but now 15,000+ miles with zero worries and not half done yet.
100% useable and available gears with no gaps. I have 22 to 120 GIs and used them ALL plenty. Could use a 20 GI but I ain't dropping 10 off the top. I was passing Honda 150s on the downhill. ha
My tourer is 9S, and most of the rest of my fleet is 8S, and both will remain that way for the foreseeable future.
#40
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,568
Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.
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OP here. I'm doing some really hard thinking here... Thanks for throwing some great thoughts into the pot.
I think I'll pop over to england and visit the Thorn shop (I have family in england). Maybe a complete bike rather than a build would be economically wiser... Yes, TdA is my goal. It doesn't get talked about much here. I'm sure I'll be starting new threads to gather more wisdom from you guys until then...
I think I'll pop over to england and visit the Thorn shop (I have family in england). Maybe a complete bike rather than a build would be economically wiser... Yes, TdA is my goal. It doesn't get talked about much here. I'm sure I'll be starting new threads to gather more wisdom from you guys until then...
#41
Senior Member
In the bb discussion, I've only had square taper bikes, but the original bb on my old Rockhopper only got changed a few years ago, maybe 3, so the orig must have gone a good 10 years of commuting, with an estimate of 20000 km on it. At one point it began to creak, but removing it and cleaning all the threads and regreasing the threads stopped the sound. Even when I finally put in a new one it was still not bad, no looseness or whatnot, just felt "dry" so to speak. In this respect, a good quality shimano should last easily half of what I got, I'm cutting it in half thinking of more dirty conditions all the time in a more as adventurous trip and less cleaning than in a commuting environment.
I don't think I put out enough power to feel the difference with stiffer bb's, so I'm inclined to stick with square taper, just a good one, plus lots of heavy grease in the threads and proper installation, torque and all.
Experiences from others? With external? And specifically which externals as I know there are numerous types.
I don't think I put out enough power to feel the difference with stiffer bb's, so I'm inclined to stick with square taper, just a good one, plus lots of heavy grease in the threads and proper installation, torque and all.
Experiences from others? With external? And specifically which externals as I know there are numerous types.
#42
Senior Member
I think if I was going to Africa, without looking like a hobo, I would try to retro it up a little. USB chargers and all kinds of electronics just sound like a serious temptation. Nobody will spot a rohloff and it may look more stealth than a dérailleur system, not to mention work better.