Tired of crashing, what are some riding techniques for safe riding?
06-28-12, 07:06 PM
#26
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Slow speeds will give you more time to anticipate, evaluate, and react to risky situations. With more experience, you'll get better at this and be able to do these at higher speeds.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-28-12 at 07:14 PM.
06-28-12, 07:10 PM
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Just what is the cause that you imply, Hagen? Consider a traffic situation in which traffic moves at 25mph or more. Any person who has to operate with respect to that traffic ought to consider his movements with respect to traffic moving at that speed. If some vehicle in that traffic is moving at a lower speed, allowing for the higher speed will very largely also make the movement safe with respect to the lower speed vehicle. So, what's the problem?
While I would not use "cause", these are often contributing factors in bicycle-car collisions.
06-28-12, 10:25 PM
#28
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Just what is the cause that you imply, Hagen? Consider a traffic situation in which traffic moves at 25mph or more. Any person who has to operate with respect to that traffic ought to consider his movements with respect to traffic moving at that speed. If some vehicle in that traffic is moving at a lower speed, allowing for the higher speed will very largely also make the movement safe with respect to the lower speed vehicle. So, what's the problem?
06-28-12, 11:30 PM
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Since February or four months and 1000k or 620mi you have had two accidents. Either you're unlucky or an idiot, most likely the latter. Riding at night without lights is just idiot. Be aware.
Stupid meets stupid.
Stupid meets stupid.
06-29-12, 04:26 AM
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I was being facetious, why point out the obvious? The gentleman that I was speaking to enters the thread calls me an idiot, and tells me to slow down without providing any technical information nor direction to where I might be able to find some. These types of people are usually referred to as "trolls", they're not meant to be taken seriously. You, on the other hand, were very helpful. I had a vague idea of why someone would slow down but I had trouble grasping the concept of experience. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
06-29-12, 04:29 AM
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You call me stupid, but I'm not confident in your reading comprehension abilities. Frankly I don't see what rules of the road I violated in the second crash. Can you maybe point out what is wrong with being under the speed limit, and using a lane? Perhaps I should stop every time I see a moving obstacle on designated sidewalks. Is that how you ride? I feel like if I did that, it would take me forever to get anywhere!
06-29-12, 06:40 AM
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I was being facetious, why point out the obvious? The gentleman that I was speaking to enters the thread calls me an idiot, and tells me to slow down without providing any technical information nor direction to where I might be able to find some. These types of people are usually referred to as "trolls", they're not meant to be taken seriously. You, on the other hand, were very helpful. I had a vague idea of why someone would slow down but I had trouble grasping the concept of experience. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
https://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm
Since careful/experienced riders/drivers have fewer accidents, the fact that you had a collision indicates that it's likely you did something wrong. While that might seem harsh, keep in mind that you can't rely on the actions of other people to keep you safe. You can only rely on what actions you can take.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-29-12 at 06:48 AM.
06-29-12, 12:21 PM
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So, who was stupid? Well, frankly I fault the cyclist for riding too fast downhill toward a location crowded with bikers and walkers who might or might not be crossing at a known crossing point. The parent looked and saw the biker but totally misjudged the speed and lack of crossing time. He thought they would cross ahead of the arrival of the biker. To make judgment worse there were other bikes moving in the 10-15 mph range, but this guy was doing 25mph downhill easily.
06-29-12, 12:29 PM
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Thanks for the input everyone! I think you guys are right about assuming the worst in every potential threat, I haven't been doing that. Tonight kind of made me realize that it doesn't take any kind of testing for someone to ride a bicycle on the street, idiots who know nothing about road rules share the road with everyone else. Pretty scary thought actually.
About slowing down, yeah maybe you're right about that. The first crash I had I was probably going too fast for a residential road, and on top of that it was dark. But about the second incident, is it unreasonable to be going 40km/hr on a well lit big city road? I wasn't weaving in and out of traffic at this point, I was just traveling along the lane like every other vehicle would do. Really, when I saw that the two cyclists on the curb saw me I figured I was safe to continue on the road I was already traveling on. I suppose that kind of thinking is what got my bike killed
After the accident I asked him if he saw me and he did in fact see me. So of course I asked him why he tried to cut through my lane and his reply was simply that he was stupid. At that point I was speechless. I really wanted to punch him but he was really apologetic about it so what could I do? I just wish people like that were not around.
So anyways, is it really considered reckless to travel on main roads at the speeds I was going?
About slowing down, yeah maybe you're right about that. The first crash I had I was probably going too fast for a residential road, and on top of that it was dark. But about the second incident, is it unreasonable to be going 40km/hr on a well lit big city road? I wasn't weaving in and out of traffic at this point, I was just traveling along the lane like every other vehicle would do. Really, when I saw that the two cyclists on the curb saw me I figured I was safe to continue on the road I was already traveling on. I suppose that kind of thinking is what got my bike killed
After the accident I asked him if he saw me and he did in fact see me. So of course I asked him why he tried to cut through my lane and his reply was simply that he was stupid. At that point I was speechless. I really wanted to punch him but he was really apologetic about it so what could I do? I just wish people like that were not around. So anyways, is it really considered reckless to travel on main roads at the speeds I was going?
Ultimately the faster you go the less time you have to react and the more it hurts if something goes wrong. So if you are putting some power down assume everyone else out there is a monumental bonehead and act accordingly.
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06-29-12, 12:31 PM
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I've got recumbent, so I'm just mounting a breakaway bayonet on the front... I kid, I kid.
I've been riding motorcycle and bicycles for years and it's the same for both:
- Don't assume you have right away, even when you do.
- Assume you are invisible, even when you make eye contact.
- Always be thinking 12 seconds ahead of where you're riding.
This last one is the hardest to really discipline yourself to do. Riding is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable right? Mentally, you simply can't afford to get to comfortable when there is other traffic around, regardless of whether it's other bikes, motorized, or pedestrians. Even when there isn't, you don't want to 'over ride' your reaction time. Tight, blind corners? Slow down, even if you've been that way every day for the last two months. This time, there might be a box turtle in the middle of the trail (ask me how I know about box turtles....).
I've been riding motorcycle and bicycles for years and it's the same for both:
- Don't assume you have right away, even when you do.
- Assume you are invisible, even when you make eye contact.
- Always be thinking 12 seconds ahead of where you're riding.
This last one is the hardest to really discipline yourself to do. Riding is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable right? Mentally, you simply can't afford to get to comfortable when there is other traffic around, regardless of whether it's other bikes, motorized, or pedestrians. Even when there isn't, you don't want to 'over ride' your reaction time. Tight, blind corners? Slow down, even if you've been that way every day for the last two months. This time, there might be a box turtle in the middle of the trail (ask me how I know about box turtles....).
06-29-12, 12:34 PM
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I agree, it wasn't the greatest idea to ride without a light mounted at night. But since the crash I put a light on my bike, in fact, the light was on and shining when I was involved in the second crash.
You call me stupid, but I'm not confident in your reading comprehension abilities. Frankly I don't see what rules of the road I violated in the second crash. Can you maybe point out what is wrong with being under the speed limit, and using a lane? Perhaps I should stop every time I see a moving obstacle on designated sidewalks. Is that how you ride? I feel like if I did that, it would take me forever to get anywhere!
You call me stupid, but I'm not confident in your reading comprehension abilities. Frankly I don't see what rules of the road I violated in the second crash. Can you maybe point out what is wrong with being under the speed limit, and using a lane? Perhaps I should stop every time I see a moving obstacle on designated sidewalks. Is that how you ride? I feel like if I did that, it would take me forever to get anywhere!
If you were driving your car and saw someone looking as if they were going to cross in front of you then I'd imagine you'd at least move your foot to the brake pedal just in case. In the same way when riding your bike if you see something ahead that looks like it might develop into a situation you'd rather not get involved with, be prepared to stop and maybe lose a bit of speed along the way. The other guy might be 100% a**hole but it's not going to hurt any less if you crash.
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06-29-12, 12:44 PM
#38
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+1
I watched a television program about low altitude airplane pilots, with one commenting on when he first thought about becoming a pilot, in that it was going to be his relaxation outlet from the daily grind, but he soon realized that his attention/awareness level needed to be numerous times higher, and flying an aircraft was anything but what he envisioned. I basically tend to use the same attitude as an aircraft pilot when I'm bicycling my daily urban commutes.
06-29-12, 12:53 PM
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I watched a television program about low altitude airplane pilots, with one commenting on when he first thought about becoming a pilot, in that it was going to be his relaxation outlet from the daily grind, but he soon realized that his attention/awareness level needed to be numerous times higher, and flying an aircraft was anything but what he envisioned. I basically tend to use the same attitude as an aircraft pilot when I'm bicycling my daily urban commutes.
I watched a television program about low altitude airplane pilots, with one commenting on when he first thought about becoming a pilot, in that it was going to be his relaxation outlet from the daily grind, but he soon realized that his attention/awareness level needed to be numerous times higher, and flying an aircraft was anything but what he envisioned. I basically tend to use the same attitude as an aircraft pilot when I'm bicycling my daily urban commutes.
06-29-12, 02:04 PM
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Yeah, I've had my motorcycle up over 150 mph (track), and it's hard to even keep up with where you are, not to mention stay a little ahead, like you should. At least on a bicycle, that aspect of things is much more manageable. The flipside is that there are a lot more factors out of your control on the street, and you don't have the incredible acceleration of a motorcycle as one of your options.
One reason why I left motorcycling behind and went with bicycling was to be able to have more time to manage traffic better, incredible acceleration may solve one situation but generally can get one into an even more dangerous one shortly thereafter.
06-29-12, 02:17 PM
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I saw a near accident just like this. Clear, sunny, Sunday afternoon. Guy is coming fast in a bike-lane. Parent with a couple of kids on bikes want to cross the street at an obvious intersection point (not a cross street) where bikes and pedestrians often cross. Parent says "all clear" and a they enter right in front of the fast cyclist who manages to swerve and avoid everybody.
So, who was stupid? Well, frankly I fault the cyclist for riding too fast downhill toward a location crowded with bikers and walkers who might or might not be crossing at a known crossing point. The parent looked and saw the biker but totally misjudged the speed and lack of crossing time. He thought they would cross ahead of the arrival of the biker. To make judgment worse there were other bikes moving in the 10-15 mph range, but this guy was doing 25mph downhill easily.
So, who was stupid? Well, frankly I fault the cyclist for riding too fast downhill toward a location crowded with bikers and walkers who might or might not be crossing at a known crossing point. The parent looked and saw the biker but totally misjudged the speed and lack of crossing time. He thought they would cross ahead of the arrival of the biker. To make judgment worse there were other bikes moving in the 10-15 mph range, but this guy was doing 25mph downhill easily.
06-29-12, 02:21 PM
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The "right of way" stuff for traffic provides guidance to riders/drivers as to which driver has priority (that is, it's supposed to make deciding easier). The "right of way" stuff also is used to apportion blame after an accident.
If the goal is to avoid accidents in the first place, one either clearly/safely has the right of way or one yields it (if it's being contested or if "taking" it would lead towards a collision). Pragmatically, the "right of way" is secondary to avoiding a collision.
If the goal is to avoid accidents in the first place, one either clearly/safely has the right of way or one yields it (if it's being contested or if "taking" it would lead towards a collision). Pragmatically, the "right of way" is secondary to avoiding a collision.
06-30-12, 04:17 AM
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The best lawyer in the world can't make road rash or broken bones heal any faster, even if they can get you lots of money to feel better inside.
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06-30-12, 05:46 AM
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Suggestion to "rumble_fish" - be sure you know what "getting doored" means if you are riding at 25 mph next to parked cars.
06-30-12, 07:13 AM
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The "right of way" stuff for traffic provides guidance to riders/drivers as to which driver has priority (that is, it's supposed to make deciding easier). The "right of way" stuff also is used to apportion blame after an accident.
If the goal is to avoid accidents in the first place, one either clearly/safely has the right of way or one yields it (if it's being contested or if "taking" it would lead towards a collision). Pragmatically, the "right of way" is secondary to avoiding a collision.
If the goal is to avoid accidents in the first place, one either clearly/safely has the right of way or one yields it (if it's being contested or if "taking" it would lead towards a collision). Pragmatically, the "right of way" is secondary to avoiding a collision.
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06-30-12, 02:24 PM
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I think I hear what you guys are saying about the right of way thing. That it does a good job in adding structure to traffic, but it doesn't guarantee safety due to the many variables on the road. It will determine fault in the event of an accident but that really doesn't matter because avoidance is the top priority for safe cycling. Now that after the dust has settled a bit, I see now what I did was indeed stupid. It has nothing to do with how fast I was going, or whether or not I was abiding by the "rules". The key thing here was my failure to see the potential risk that was present. I saw those two cyclists standing there and did nothing to prepare for a possible collision. A hard lesson is learned.
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