Wheel Spoking Pattern
07-14-23, 02:37 PM
#26
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And yet, some high profile wheel manufacturers defy logic by doing exactly that. The only time I will build like that is if I am supplied with a straight pull hub which does not give you the choice of lacing pattern or spoke orientation.
I have seen several Zipp straight pull hubs with drive side radial with broken flanges, including this one that exploded right in my truing stand.
I have seen several Zipp straight pull hubs with drive side radial with broken flanges, including this one that exploded right in my truing stand.
FWIW - when I first started building wheels 55 years ago, race wheels typically used 15g DB spokes and lighter rims that what's trendy now, Some time in the seventies or eighties, focusing on tension and using heavier spokes became trendy. That made spokes stronger than rims, and lead to rims getting heavier in response. Those stronger spokes at higher tensions lead to higher rates of hub flange failures.
It's important to think of wheels as a structural system, where the various elements work as part of the whole. Changing a single element changes the system, and can have negative effects on the other elements.
Required reading for all aspiring (and experienced) wheel builders. (LT 5 minute read)
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FB
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 07-14-23 at 05:27 PM.
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07-14-23, 03:34 PM
#28
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Later on, I'll try to find the poem --- The Deacon's Masterpiece --- on another site and change the link.
EDIT ---- it's now fixed
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 07-14-23 at 05:31 PM.
07-15-23, 09:39 PM
#29
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With loose reference to the Brandt book, there would be only one real issue with such a wheel: Radial spoke tensions would work together to pull outward on the hub flange, while crossed spoke tensions largely oppose each other, with a resulting lower outward force. This is a problem for a 36-hole low flange hub (think classic Record low-flange) with very little metal between adjacent spoke holes. You could break a chunk of flange off along the spoke holes, like separating stamps. The consequences could be ugly.
Aside from that, the only consequence was postponing the next day’s ride while I built another wheel. I hate to think what could have happened if I’d been riding it when it let go.
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07-15-23, 10:50 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
I did exactly that years ago and it was ugly. I built a 36-spoke wheel on an OMAS hub, laced radially. When it came time to bring it up to final tension, all was well until it went BANG. I had shrapnel bounce off the ceiling and land in my hair.
Aside from that, the only consequence was postponing the next day’s ride while I built another wheel. I hate to think what could have happened if I’d been riding it when it let go.
Aside from that, the only consequence was postponing the next day’s ride while I built another wheel. I hate to think what could have happened if I’d been riding it when it let go.
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07-16-23, 12:44 PM
#31
Senior Member
Don't worry about the hub flange failing on the NDS, the tension shouldn't be high enough to cause problems in most cases.
As I mentioned in post #4, check Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding. Read his comments about lacing patterns and situations that causes issues with radial lacing.
As long as your wheel is properly built and tensioned, leave it as is.
As I mentioned in post #4, check Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding. Read his comments about lacing patterns and situations that causes issues with radial lacing.
As long as your wheel is properly built and tensioned, leave it as is.
07-16-23, 12:46 PM
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Don't worry about the hub flange failing on the NDS, the tension shouldn't be high enough to cause problems in most cases.
As I mentioned in post #4, check Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding. Read his comments about lacing patterns and situations that causes issues with radial lacing.
As long as your wheel is properly built and tensioned, leave it as is.
As I mentioned in post #4, check Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding. Read his comments about lacing patterns and situations that causes issues with radial lacing.
As long as your wheel is properly built and tensioned, leave it as is.
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07-16-23, 01:46 PM
#33
Banned
A potential problem is that the spokes may be of different lengths and so you would want to carry both spoke lengths to do a repair on the road.
09-13-23, 04:00 PM
#34
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WHY?
As noted before, many of the arguments for atypical builds are nonsense, but that's equally true for those against.
If the wheel is OK now, I can't see a reason to take it apart.
In fact, many in my generation consider it bad Karma to intentionally destroy a wheel.
I suggest you continue to enjoy this wheel as is, despite any doubts. Worst case, it'll last forever just to spite you.
As noted before, many of the arguments for atypical builds are nonsense, but that's equally true for those against.
If the wheel is OK now, I can't see a reason to take it apart.
In fact, many in my generation consider it bad Karma to intentionally destroy a wheel.
I suggest you continue to enjoy this wheel as is, despite any doubts. Worst case, it'll last forever just to spite you.
09-13-23, 04:15 PM
#35
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Stolen from Facebook but this is a lacing pattern. Any ideas on what it is? (Hint: it’s science)
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
09-14-23, 12:44 AM
#36
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Thread Starter
Fractal or new covid variant?
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09-14-23, 07:59 AM
#37
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__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
09-17-23, 02:40 PM
#38
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Thread Starter
Let me take some psilocybin and get back to you on that.
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