3alarmer

...I still have a working Helicomatic on a Trek 720, and I don't replace much stuff that is not broken. That said, I wouldn't take that wheel on a tour. If something does go wrong, I'd like to be at home with the tools and workshop I have to address the problem. It is true that these hubs were designed with under-engineered bearings in the back, but given proper cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment they seem to do OK IME (which is limited to one or two of them). If something does go wrong with the wheel or hub, that would be the time to rebuild/replace. I presume your plans are to ride it from home.

As already stated, obtaining new cogs can be problematic. These showed up on many Trek bikes in the years when they first came out, because they were considered marvelous. You could remove and change out the cogs with one simple, lightweight, cheap, portable tool. The biggest issue I've experienced is that they are difficult to adjust, for proper bearing clearance/preload. I suspect this is why so many failed prematurely, but I have no research to back that up.

I, too, feel like I can get plenty wide enough gearing range with six cogs in back. But where I ride it's pretty flat.

Jeff Neese

Of all the things you should NOT do, spreading the rear triangle is at the top of the list. You loved the 560 when you had it before, geared the way it was then. Love it again the same way. There are plenty of good 6-speed freewheels if that's what you're worried about. If my Trek 400T needed new hubs, the new one would be 6 speed just like the old one. I'm not going to take my lugged Reynolds 531 frame, hand assembled in Wisconsin on a jig and brazed by one of the skilled framebuilders at Trek, and start bending it up. Just let it be a six speed bike.

If you do find yourself needing to replace hubs/wheels/freewheel, here's just a sampling from only one vendor of the choices you have in 126mm wheels. There are plenty.

https://www.modernbike.com/700c-rear...iswheel-master

79pmooney

I don't have the "keep every thing as original as possible" gene. That said, a lot of the old stuff worked really well (sometimes with minor tweaks). Mafac Racer brakes. SunTour derailleurs. Hubs, BBs, cranksets. I insist on very good brakes. (I've exceeded my crash limit.) I hate exposed brake cables. Hated them when I raced back when aero brake levers were yet to be even a dream. I got spoiled by SunTour shifting in the early '70s and will never settle for less. Wheels need to be good. Rims I trust. (And trust to keep tires on.)

If I were handed my old Fuji Pro, my old racing bike, I'd pass on it simply because it was a pure, very, very sensitive steering race bike. I'll never do the hours to re-learn riding it smoothly and "quietly". But a lower BB'd, more trail version? I'd happily ride it "as is" if I was strong enough to ride the local hills (or as a very similar triple), same brakes, DT shifters, wheels (OK , after damage to those light rims, I'd go heavier now). But new brake levers would go on right away and those cables buried in the bar tape.

In fact, I am soon to get a Pro Miyata frame from a forumite with a bunch of visible rust. It just may be a less highstrung version of the Fuji. Probably get set up 7-speed triple. Already has my first choice of DT shifters brazed on. Sewups, maybe SunTour Superbe brake calipes, Textro levers, maybe Cyclone derailleurs. Seatpost to get my proper setback, very likely a Nitto lugged steel if the bike is a keeper. Stem to fit. (150?) So nothing exactly like it ever was, most of it generally period but exceptions to allow "the ride".

merziac

You never really know until you get there, I had one recently that the crank arms looked pretty bad, scrubbed a bit then went after it with a finer sanding sponge, looked worse after a few minutes, another scrub with scotchbrite and polish and they looked ok.

Stopped right there and called it good.

As I said, kind of hunt and peck, you have to feel your way through it, develop your own style and process. If you go slow you can refine it along the way.

You may not get the same results the same way everytime but you can learn how far to go and stop before it goes too far south.

You can beat yourself to death polishing some of these turds.

Hobbiano 

They quit using the helicomatics in 1985 (on the 560). On any bike with a helicomatic, I would budget for new wheels and freewheel, or at least replacing the rear hub and freewheel. If you happen to get a helicomatic bike and the hub's not fried, you're lucky. By fried, I mean trashed cones, and replacements are almost impossible to find.

droppedandlost 

very true. I thought I was in for a battle with this crank, but a tiny bit of metal polish and about 30 minutes gave me this

merziac

PugRider

"Old pedals were made for narrow feet"

While mostly true in general, there were plenty of wider pedals for touring, many not that nice but very functional.

These are my go to, still made the same for 50? years, inexpensive, great value, bulletproof, great classic look and very available.

MKS Sylvan touring



Sylvan quills can be ground down or bent to make room for wider feet as well if need be.

zandoval 

Unless you have a whole lot of money in most cases a "REAL RESTORATION" usually produces a "WALL HANGER".

But then again, everyone should have at least one wall hanger. OK... Maybe two? or Three?... Ha

merziac

The trouble starts after you get one of these and the next one takes a week to get there.

Assuming that's a fantastic looking Grand Jubilee, nice work.

zandoval 

Sure... How about 30 min a day for lets say four days... All in all very VERY NICE!

The Golden Boy 

A 6 speed Trek (especially from 1987) is most likely spaced at 128- no need for "spreading" you can squeeze in a 10 speed 130 with no ill effects. Which is why they spaced at 128 (not that they particularly envisioned 10 speed, but 7 and 8 cassettes- yes)

I'm a huge fan of the 86/87 Trek 400 Elance. That's a butted 531 frame with CrMo fork and stays (more than likely built in Japan and assembled in Waterloo). If you look at the catalog- that bike is down around the bottom of Trek's line- it's a great frame- it's got good/decent parts that were selected to function well yet keep the cost down. If you love the bike how it is- it's a great bike. But it's got a lot of room to grow up.

I love my 1986 400 Elance- I've upgraded most every part on it- it's 6 speed Accushift, but since changing over my 620 and 720 to 10 speed- it's in the queue.

The Golden Boy 

There's as many answers to this as there are people posting. I've run the range of 'what to do' from "replace with proper components" to "upgrade to period correct upgrade components" to "upgrade the bike like someone would in 1993" to "put the nicest and niftiest components on you can find" to "upgrade everything to 10 speed indexing with the fanciest **** you can afford." I think over everything I've done with my bikes is to try to keep it sorta "classic" looking within reason- the biggest offending component would be the modern brake levers that look so modern, but feel and work so well. But there are people that are perfectly fine with mixing and matching vintage and modern- in both a functional and stylistic sense.

I've never owned a "modern" bike- so "vintage" bikes are what I think I know. When all I knew was 5 and 6 speed and stock parts, those were swell. But once I got a taste for nicer components, and then rode a 10 speed rear end- it just seemed silly to handicap my ride by going back to 6 speed. Even 7 speed seems limiting (until you get used to it again).

It's entirely up to you and what you want and how much money you want to throw at it. I get the sense you're looking to just get the nostalgic bump from an old bicycle like your old one. To that end, I'd service everything on the bike- and ride it like an old 1980s 560- but pay attention to the Helicomatic. New bearings- look at the cups and cones and see if anything is pitted or chewed up- Roll with those, but make sure you're keeping them greased and cleaned often. Replace what needs to be replaced. Keep in mind, there are things that once you replace *this* you have to replace *that* and so you might as well replace *that other thing* while you're at it. It's a game. If you have to replace things with something new- you might want to think about future proofing it if you are enjoying riding it, and are enjoying it on a level beyond a nostalgic old bike.

My Trek 620 and 720 have had most everything replaced on them with parts that I consider among the best made- they're both running 10 speed rear ends.

IMG_2377 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

620 Rebuild Shakedown by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


My Trek 400 Elance and Miyata 1000LT are both upgraded sorta like it was 1994 or something. The Trek is still running 6 speed but changed to Suntour Accushift and the Miyata is 7 speed XTR.
1986 Trek 400 Elance by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

M1000LT by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

curbtender

https://www.boisebicycleproject.org/...pro-series-560

Jeff Neese

When you say "a lot of room to grow up", I honestly don't know that there is much that I even want to change on my 400T. Everything works really, really well. Like I said, I decided to try a Charge Spoon and I like it very much, especially for the price. And I already changed brake levers. The only upgrade I might make is to replace the narrow stock handlebars, and put on Nitto Grand Randonneur 135 which I have on two other bikes. I'm not sure what else I would change. I do know that things like the BB, hubs, headset, and in fact all of the components are mid-level, but when I replace them with something better as they wear out, I wouldn't consider that an upgrade. So if that's what you mean, then yes - it would get "better" over time as things wore out and were replaced.

Yeah, the Elance's are real sleepers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even the 330 was full chromoly. I love that mine's a triple.

jdawginsc 

Mothers Mag polish does great for alloy parts that aren’t anodized. Anything anodized, you clean and live with the milkiness it might have.

Usually brakes, stem seatpost can be polished.

I use a nice rubbing polisher for the frame. Mild version. TCut or turtle wax. Chrome gets barkeeps friend but I doubt you will have any.

A good comment up there for your decisioning...the bike speaks to me. My AD SLE I bought from a member tempted me with repainting but then I went with the joy of polish and touch up. I dislike Weinmann 605 brakes, and the bike had already been upgraded to Cyclone and Campy Victory derailleurs so I decided to go Cyclone heavy with the original Nervar crank. Wheels kept, but had they been Helicomatic, no go for me.

The Golden Boy 

By the way Jeff- I didn't mention it- but your bike is beautiful. I really like it and I don't want to seem like I'm knocking on your bike or you.
I think the 330 changed by year- in 1987, notice the catalog doesn't specify what the stays are made of- just that they're "special tapered." If something's is CrMo, they say it's CrMo.

I started discovering parts and the way parts work together by working on my 400 Elance and seeing other people's bikes here and reading about how stuff works. You don't know what you're missing until you find it. You've changed your saddle, stem and levers because you knew there was better than what was on there... you know there's bars that'll probably work better for you... There's plenty of parts that perform better, that are stronger and weigh less, not to mention just looking pretty and the ability to make you smile when you see it- you just have to run into them.

merziac

They all speak to me, a virtual cacophony of bikes, frames, parts, pieces, stories and lies.

bamboobike4

1. What do you plan to do with it? That drives the equation.

Otherwise:
Disassemble
Clean
Polish
Preserve
Reassemble
Ride

Dominae

i will admire it, ride it to the coffee shop, ride it on a bike path, look at at some more trying to recapture my youth and tinker on it endlessly. I will not be going on long hard rides with it. I have other bikes for that.

merziac

Especially the "tinker on it endlessly" part.

Jeff Neese

Absolutely I know that there are better components. Those Maillard 500 hubs on my 400 aren't the greatest and I did have to replace one of the cones. Most of my other bikes use some flavor of Deore. The BB will probably be IRC or Velo Orange (can't justify a Phil Wood) and so on. But this bike won't get ridden a lot (it goes into the rotation) so what's on there may last a good long time.

Everyone is different with regard to gearing, I guess. It's just not that big a deal to me. Whatever bike I've ridden since my first 10-speed Schwinn Continental, has always had enough gears. I toured many thousands of miles on my Trek 720 with a 6 speed freewheel. Admittedly the granny gear helped a lot. I just never have the urge to upgrade the number of gears on any bike I buy. To me, they had enough gears then and they still have enough gears now. I'm never going to spread any frame. If I want more gears I'll buy a frame that accomodates that. But again, that's just me. Same thing with indexing. I grew up with friction shifting so it's no big deal, and I prefer it for the simplicity and reliability. Downtube shifters are great - less cabling and also less clutter in the cockpit - they're out of the way but right there when you want them. Plus it's a cleaner and more elegant look, for a classic road bike.

jdawginsc 

I think the lesson learned from the responses...? Everyone has their own definition of “restoration” of vintage bikes...whether...

1. “holy crap this is in terrible shape. Let me spend $400 on a paint job for a frame on a bike that was $389 in 1986! I can get NOS parts for the bike and it shouldn’t cost me more than $800!”

Or 2. “Paint looks pretty good after a polish. These scratches show respect. Have to replace a few rusty parts but wayback machine ready!”

Or 3. “I can match that paint color with seventeen bottles of testors and nail polish. I hate Weinmann brakes, so I think I can get away with Cyclones to match the RD/FD/S. It’s period appropriate.”

Or 4. “Love the frame. Needs some retro-mod stuff. Brifters on a 1981 Faggin...? Sign me up!”

Or 5. “Gugie can undrew that monstrous SS conversion...I can find metallic paint to fill it in. I can put all sorts of combos of parts on that...maybe some Mavic Cosmics...”

Or 6. “It’s carbon fiber. I’m not messing with that as a restoration. That’s not vintage steel...Cannondale looks cool...I wonder if I can cold set the drops to 132...<<crack>>”

Or 7. “I love this Peugeot Super Competition...need to strip the paint (wonder which stripper to use), then I will buy an air gun painting kit. Maybe a triple crank set up with 3x10 half step gearing. Those mustache bars will be cool...”

Dominae

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. They have helped me clarify that I want to keep as much of the original bike as possible. I will have to see what kind of shape the Helicomatic hub is in before I decide whether to replace it, but if it is serviceable I will keep it. I might make a few other changes to the original parts. For instance, on the original Bike that I owned in the 1980s I swapped the original derailleurs for Nuovo Record. I might make that change although it is not original but is how I remember the bike.

Does anyone know the tire width that these mid 1980s Trek frames will accommodate?

jdawginsc 

The Elance 400t takes 28mm easily.

Hobbiano 

What year is your bike? The '84's were black, and were the last year with the helicomatics, '85's were purple. The 84's had very little clearance for bigger tires - maybe 23's. But the 85's had more clearance. I have 28mm Panaracer Paselas on mine but that is about as big as will fit. It's very close under the front brake, the closest point. By the way, the Paselas are nice tires and ride nice, but are fairly slow compared to some others.
I'm not sure about the later year models.
If you don't know what year it is, the "vintage trek" site will help you pinpoint the year. https://www.vintage-trek.com/