Is the Peugeot UO8 series frame really designed for 650B wheels?
#26
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You're correct, that the stays are the same. I measured everything on the 2 rear triangles (both bikes are 56cm/56cm frames), and everything is the same within a 1/16th of an inch. The only difference is in the forks. On the PX-50 with 650b wheels it's 15-1/8" axle to top of crown, and the PX-8 with 700c wheels is 15-3/8". Also, the fork widths are different, with the PX-8 having a 3-1/8" wide crown, and the PX-50 having a 3-5/8' wide crown. They just provided a 1/4" shorter, and 1/2" wider fork on the PX-50 to accommodate the 650b tires.
But, placing my 650b wheel into the PX-8, with a 584x40 Kenda 650b tire, there's about 5-1/2cm spacing each side of the tire. So, you could easily fit 42mm tires into the stock UO-8 fork, however the Mafac Racer calipers won't reach if you do it with 650b wheels, since there's fully a 1-1/4" gap under the fork crown.
But, placing my 650b wheel into the PX-8, with a 584x40 Kenda 650b tire, there's about 5-1/2cm spacing each side of the tire. So, you could easily fit 42mm tires into the stock UO-8 fork, however the Mafac Racer calipers won't reach if you do it with 650b wheels, since there's fully a 1-1/4" gap under the fork crown.
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1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
#27
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Here you can see the fit with 27 x 1 1/4, 27 x 1 3/8, & 700 x 32c. The 700 x 32c seems like a perfect fit. As jj1091 points out, the rear triangle of the French 650b bikes are exactly the same so we have to conclude that the frame is designed to fit 650b & 700c and works just fine with 27 x 1 1/4" as well. The 27 x 1 3/8 works but the clearances are a bit tight. If you broke a spoke you might end up with the tire rubbing the chainstay. Interestingly, while you can see that the 27 x 1 1/4 is a bit closer to the bridge than the 700 x 32c as you would expect, the wide points of the tires seem to fall in about the same position. Probably just the difference in the tire shapes.
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1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Last edited by Kommisar89; 10-06-18 at 05:03 PM.
#28
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I have size 11 feet, and my socks fit me, so that means the socks were designed for size 11 feet, right? Wrong. They fit many size feet.
The UO-8 frame, i.e. the frame of many models, happened to fit many size wheels.
The UO-8 frame, i.e. the frame of many models, happened to fit many size wheels.
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#29
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The Peugeot UO8 (and the AE8 - of which I have one from new) were designed for 27x1¼ tyres. At the time - mid-70s bike tyres were pretty much 27x1¼ or 26x1½ on Adult bikes.
I'm not sure when metric tyres came in for bikes, as I hadn't used mine for a while but I fot a surprise when I had difficulty finding them on the rack!
In Europe we still use imperial sizes for car tyres, typically 15" to 17" and up. To muddy waters a bit the 185 you see after the rim size is the section width in millimmetres!
Michelin tried a move to metric car rims in the 80s (the TRX ) but they never really caught on
I'm not sure when metric tyres came in for bikes, as I hadn't used mine for a while but I fot a surprise when I had difficulty finding them on the rack!
In Europe we still use imperial sizes for car tyres, typically 15" to 17" and up. To muddy waters a bit the 185 you see after the rim size is the section width in millimmetres!
Michelin tried a move to metric car rims in the 80s (the TRX ) but they never really caught on
#30
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[MENTION=528590]RobNew[/MENTION], welcome to bikeforums. The Peugeot bikes of that era were designed to export to many markets as well as to be used domestically. I don't think 27" wheels were ever popular on the European continent, and I'm pretty sure UO8s and AE8s and the like used 700c wheels in those markets. See my post above yours.
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#31
I have 2x ph45m mixtes, px50L, pvn10 and ph8m from mid 70s to early 80s, all euro-spec. Even if they have different chainstay lengths, all have dimples placed in such a way that the widest part of 650b x 38 tire is at the center of the dimple. From the factory, these bikes were equipped with 27”, 700c and 650b tires.
From these bikes, my Px50L was originally a 650b touring frame and as previous comment mentioned, front fork is quite wide - 650b x 52mm (2.1”) tires are the widest usable size I’ve ran without fenders. With some extra crimping, same size fits to rear even better.
Px50L monstercross
From these bikes, my Px50L was originally a 650b touring frame and as previous comment mentioned, front fork is quite wide - 650b x 52mm (2.1”) tires are the widest usable size I’ve ran without fenders. With some extra crimping, same size fits to rear even better.
Px50L monstercross
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noglider Hi Tom,
Certainly in my part of Europe back then no-one had even heard of metric tyres!
There were a variety of Continental European bikes available and none of them had metric tyres, I'd be very surprised if the French, Italians and Austrians put Imperial tyres on just for us, much as they don't like us now, they didn't like us then either!
I had enough trouble trying to find the right sized cotter pins for it then, and let's not mention trying to get a cotterless chainset!
Certainly in my part of Europe back then no-one had even heard of metric tyres!
There were a variety of Continental European bikes available and none of them had metric tyres, I'd be very surprised if the French, Italians and Austrians put Imperial tyres on just for us, much as they don't like us now, they didn't like us then either!
I had enough trouble trying to find the right sized cotter pins for it then, and let's not mention trying to get a cotterless chainset!
#33
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noglider Hi Tom,
Certainly in my part of Europe back then no-one had even heard of metric tyres!
There were a variety of Continental European bikes available and none of them had metric tyres, I'd be very surprised if the French, Italians and Austrians put Imperial tyres on just for us, much as they don't like us now, they didn't like us then either!
I had enough trouble trying to find the right sized cotter pins for it then, and let's not mention trying to get a cotterless chainset!
Certainly in my part of Europe back then no-one had even heard of metric tyres!
There were a variety of Continental European bikes available and none of them had metric tyres, I'd be very surprised if the French, Italians and Austrians put Imperial tyres on just for us, much as they don't like us now, they didn't like us then either!
I had enough trouble trying to find the right sized cotter pins for it then, and let's not mention trying to get a cotterless chainset!
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#35
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Seems like the crimps should accomodate the fender at the widest point(?).
Switching to 650b rims means increasing the brake reach a full 19mm from 700c rims and 23mm(!) from 27-inch rims.
Switching to 650b rims means increasing the brake reach a full 19mm from 700c rims and 23mm(!) from 27-inch rims.
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Well I haven't been idle in the past 24 hrs, chaps.
I have somewhere a 1990 ETRTO manual, which I a) used professionaly back then and b) can't find now. So that's no help.
I chatted to a friend who unlike me did not have a cycling hiatus over the past 40 something years. He tod me I had always assumed that measuring the tyres on a bike was the same as a car, that the 27 (say) referred to the bead diameter, so armed with a tape, I set off and measured, as best I could, the 27" (or actually because I was measuting a radius 13½") was approx half-way up the sidewall. So that was that debunked. After all these years I had never measured the bead diameter, being told they were 27" tyres, I assumed that's what it was!
Now, turning to my discussion with noglider I managed, through the wonders of t'interweb to find some period catalogues for Peugeot bikes. This is the UK version, exactly similar to mine on 27" hp tyres
(except I can't post pictures yet....
But the french version of the same bike, is, as noglider says on 700C rims (I have no idea what that actually means) I did have a link to the french catalogue for the AE8, but I can't find it now, sorry.
So, apologies to noglider but it would appear that tyres were market specific as he suggests. I bought my bike in the mid-late 70s so that would tally and by the 80s I had a driving licence so never used the bike that much afterwards.
You chaps have probably seen this web site before, bikeboompeugeot.com/index.html but it looks like a great resource. The OP could probably trawl it with little bother and get the answer to his question.
My chum also thinks I may have difficulty buying 27x1¼ tyres now.
I have somewhere a 1990 ETRTO manual, which I a) used professionaly back then and b) can't find now. So that's no help.
I chatted to a friend who unlike me did not have a cycling hiatus over the past 40 something years. He tod me I had always assumed that measuring the tyres on a bike was the same as a car, that the 27 (say) referred to the bead diameter, so armed with a tape, I set off and measured, as best I could, the 27" (or actually because I was measuting a radius 13½") was approx half-way up the sidewall. So that was that debunked. After all these years I had never measured the bead diameter, being told they were 27" tyres, I assumed that's what it was!
Now, turning to my discussion with noglider I managed, through the wonders of t'interweb to find some period catalogues for Peugeot bikes. This is the UK version, exactly similar to mine on 27" hp tyres
(except I can't post pictures yet....
But the french version of the same bike, is, as noglider says on 700C rims (I have no idea what that actually means) I did have a link to the french catalogue for the AE8, but I can't find it now, sorry.
So, apologies to noglider but it would appear that tyres were market specific as he suggests. I bought my bike in the mid-late 70s so that would tally and by the 80s I had a driving licence so never used the bike that much afterwards.
You chaps have probably seen this web site before, bikeboompeugeot.com/index.html but it looks like a great resource. The OP could probably trawl it with little bother and get the answer to his question.
My chum also thinks I may have difficulty buying 27x1¼ tyres now.
#37
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[MENTION=528590]RobNew[/MENTION], here is an article that will both inform and confuse you further.
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Just to add to the mix...
I bought my wife a Peugeot Mixte, it was in lovely condition when I bought it, but stood neglected for a few years. Anyway....
The current (crusty) tyres on it are 28 * 1 5/8 * 1 1/16, or 25-622 or (I think) 700x25 and they look stupid narrow, more like tubs than tyres. This is what put her off it. It needs bigger tyres (and I think it should have them, possibly a PO changed them at some point)
The wheels, as far as I can determine through the rust, are 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/8
?
According to my ETRTO manual (1990 - sorry) I should be able to fit 28-622, 32-622 or 35-622 tyres (if they will go between the forks) Does this sound about right
The current (crusty) tyres on it are 28 * 1 5/8 * 1 1/16, or 25-622 or (I think) 700x25 and they look stupid narrow, more like tubs than tyres. This is what put her off it. It needs bigger tyres (and I think it should have them, possibly a PO changed them at some point)
The wheels, as far as I can determine through the rust, are 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/8
?
According to my ETRTO manual (1990 - sorry) I should be able to fit 28-622, 32-622 or 35-622 tyres (if they will go between the forks) Does this sound about right
#39
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I bought my wife a Peugeot Mixte, it was in lovely condition when I bought it, but stood neglected for a few years. Anyway....
The current (crusty) tyres on it are 28 * 1 5/8 * 1 1/16, or 25-622 or (I think) 700x25 and they look stupid narrow, more like tubs than tyres. This is what put her off it. It needs bigger tyres (and I think it should have them, possibly a PO changed them at some point)
The wheels, as far as I can determine through the rust, are 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/8
?
According to my ETRTO manual (1990 - sorry) I should be able to fit 28-622, 32-622 or 35-622 tyres (if they will go between the forks) Does this sound about right
The current (crusty) tyres on it are 28 * 1 5/8 * 1 1/16, or 25-622 or (I think) 700x25 and they look stupid narrow, more like tubs than tyres. This is what put her off it. It needs bigger tyres (and I think it should have them, possibly a PO changed them at some point)
The wheels, as far as I can determine through the rust, are 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/8
?
According to my ETRTO manual (1990 - sorry) I should be able to fit 28-622, 32-622 or 35-622 tyres (if they will go between the forks) Does this sound about right
#40
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[MENTION=528590]RobNew[/MENTION], yes, that's correct!
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.