Not quite an FTP test
#26
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That's a fallacy. Whole purpose of anything scientific is based on the fact that argument are made on merit of facts, per se, not who said it. Coggan is not infallible.
As far as i'm concerned, the whole point of ctL and all that stuff is predicated upon a model that is based on incremental (exponential moving avg) change, and you test under similar conditions (eg tsb) so that you introduce as few as possible other variables that may affect the test.
If your ftp changes on different testing dates, then it follows that the change over a month is predicated upon minute changes through the month. Say you hit 300 on the first test and 310 four weeks later, it doesny mean that you were at 300 for three weeks and six days and made the leap of 10 watts all in one day.
As far as i'm concerned, the whole point of ctL and all that stuff is predicated upon a model that is based on incremental (exponential moving avg) change, and you test under similar conditions (eg tsb) so that you introduce as few as possible other variables that may affect the test.
If your ftp changes on different testing dates, then it follows that the change over a month is predicated upon minute changes through the month. Say you hit 300 on the first test and 310 four weeks later, it doesny mean that you were at 300 for three weeks and six days and made the leap of 10 watts all in one day.
#27
SkinnyStrong
He raises a valid point. Testing is training, not just for the physiological aspects, but preparing the mind for long bouts of discomfort
#30
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Mostly I was just curious - thanks for humoring my curiosity for a spell.
*The fact I haven't done that is at least as much a time issue as an aversion to pain: quite consistently, my riding consists of one-hour-ish rides during the week (lunch rides), and a single long climby ride on the weekend. I don't want to put the test into my long ride, so I have an hour for the test ride. The way roads work out around here, the actual test is pretty much all "out", which means I still have the "back" stretch of the ride to do after the test. Doing just the 20-minute test, that fits OK into a one-hour ride. An extra 5 minute effort + recovery starts to stretch it.
Last edited by plantrob; 03-08-13 at 02:01 PM.
#32
SkinnyStrong
Ok, well, what I do when I test FTP is the Friel 30 minute test (no 5 minute blowout, just lay it all out in the test). Supposedly that "IS" FTP, because with race-time motivation you could hold your 30 minute power for 60 minutes. However, when I do the test I find that the average I have at 20 minutes tends to be the average I have at 30 minutes +/- a watt or 2. So there's your answer, according to me.
There have been times, though, when I've gone out to do the 30 minute test and gave up at 18, 20, or 25 minutes because I know the average isn't going to go any higher, and I did't have the mental fortitude to finish it off. That usually happens early the season. What I've done in those instances is take the average from that and subtract a few watts, and that's good enough for training purposes. That said, if I can't finish a 30 minute test, as far as I'm concerned I don't have a functional threshold, I just have some number that I use for training.
There have been times, though, when I've gone out to do the 30 minute test and gave up at 18, 20, or 25 minutes because I know the average isn't going to go any higher, and I did't have the mental fortitude to finish it off. That usually happens early the season. What I've done in those instances is take the average from that and subtract a few watts, and that's good enough for training purposes. That said, if I can't finish a 30 minute test, as far as I'm concerned I don't have a functional threshold, I just have some number that I use for training.
#33
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#35
Genetics have failed me
#37
Jeez, tough crowd.
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You do a 30s interval. How does your HR react? How are power numbers reflected in this?
They are different tools, you can't really compare the two honestly.
#42
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I do. But not nearly as much as the rest of you guys do. So it's not the primary focus of my cycling sport enjoyment - just one of the aspects of it. I hang out at this forum because I'm a performance-oriented and competitive-minded cyclist, even if my race tally for this year may not exceed 10.
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I rolled my eyes because you're stating the obvious. My original point was that a lot of people start out with heart rate monitors then progress to power meters for more accurate measurements. So if you're going to half-a$$ your testing or guesstimate, you might as well go back to using HR or RPE.
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I've done it both ways, and I don't believe any reduced accuracy from skipping the lead up intervals is an issue. Consistency is the key, so I do my tests on the same (uninterrupted) stretch of road, at about the same time of day, with the nutrition as close to the same as possible, etc. Wind is a variable, but that effects speed more than the validity of the power measurement. I do a 30' warmup, then the test, and I usually have some tempo work assigned following the test. Plus, I have to get back to my car, since I drive to the good test location. As we all know, testing is training, and this routine fits into a cohesive training schedule better than the "by the book" test. Particularly since my test is typically done in a rest week - again for consistencies sake. Less testing during race season, since it is more likely to mess with training/taper. Towards the end of a taper week, I'm going to be doing an opener about the time I would be doing the test.
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Thanks for sharing that, AZTR. Sounds like your routine is somewhat like mine, although I'm not as disciplined about my training schedule, so I may never be as well rested when testing as I really should be. I do try to seek out times when there's a good head wind on my testing stretch - around here, rollers are unavoidable, and a headwind makes it easier to keep maintain power output on the downhill bits. Good thing that's the prevailing wind direction, so I'm usually OK.
#48
fuggitivo solitario
Well, testing is training, and since i'm training to improve effort at and above threshold, you are indeed correct, though i don't really do 25min efforts at ftp anymore.
Otherwise, it's a monthly trip to Shenandoah, where i climb from front royal to dickey ridge (have it at rkwaki) 2x. Too bad they are currently snowed out...
Otherwise, it's a monthly trip to Shenandoah, where i climb from front royal to dickey ridge (have it at rkwaki) 2x. Too bad they are currently snowed out...
#49
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Well, testing is training, and since i'm training to improve effort at and above threshold, you are indeed correct, though i don't really do 25min efforts at ftp anymore.
Otherwise, it's a monthly trip to Shenandoah, where i climb from front royal to dickey ridge (have it at rkwaki) 2x. Too bad they are currently snowed out...
Otherwise, it's a monthly trip to Shenandoah, where i climb from front royal to dickey ridge (have it at rkwaki) 2x. Too bad they are currently snowed out...
my team was planning to ride out there saturday but the snow kept us local.
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I drive to my test site and do a 20 minute warmup. The test road is an out and back with a flip turn in the middle. The prevailing wind is either a headwind out or a cross. The flip turn evens things out. After the test is done I roll back to my truck. It usually takes twice as long. I have nothing more.