6 vs 7 speed why people upgrade?
#26
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I think evaluating just how many combinations of gears you ride in is the real crux. I have my compact crank up front. I've got five to seven gears on my freewheels (threaded), but of those 5 to 7 gears I really only use about three of them. So what of those other gears? Well it's nice to know they are there if I need them.
I have noticed that riders with indexed shifters use allot more gear combinations than I do. Maybe it's also the training and familiarity. It appears that older riders tend to do a little more mashing before switching gears. And maybe that is just laziness...
I have noticed that riders with indexed shifters use allot more gear combinations than I do. Maybe it's also the training and familiarity. It appears that older riders tend to do a little more mashing before switching gears. And maybe that is just laziness...
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#27
I get it new technology can be scary sometimes but I can assure you 9, 10, 11 and 12 speed are quite nice and have improved things over the years it is not just marketing it is people actually advancing things forward. You wouldn't be able to post on a forum on a website without the advancement forward with technology and your computer is marketing hype along with the internet you use but in the end it really isn't.
Again i like riding 1 speed so i be fine with either 6 or 7 speeds.
Last edited by PimpMan; 05-24-21 at 11:27 PM.
#28
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lol...dude, you've got a bone to pick or something with your "question". no one's trying to convince you to do anything other than what you want with your gears
fyi, any change you make to the size of the chainrings and/or freewheel cogs absolutely changes the gear ratio. that's not marketing. that's physics. even changing the size of your wheels/tires changes the gear ratio. surely you've noticed all that? i think a good question here is why are you upgrading from one to 7 speeds. oh wait....you NEED it.
if you have a rear dropout spacing that will only fit 5 or 6 speed clusters and yet you need a lower gear than what you've been using while still retaining the high gear your used to, what will happen is that you will necessarily have larger jumps shifting from one gear to the next.
example...
14/16/ 18/21/24/28. say that 28 tooth cog isn't low enough
then you try..
14/16/18/21/24/30
that jump from 24 to 30 is an abrupt change. it may not matter so much under many of the circumstances you ride, but the shifting won't be quite as smooth nor will your cadence.... unless! you simply add another/seventh gear.
14/16/18/21/24/28/32
see how that works? smoother shifting and an even lower gear. too fancy? is that marketing? i'd buy it
fyi, any change you make to the size of the chainrings and/or freewheel cogs absolutely changes the gear ratio. that's not marketing. that's physics. even changing the size of your wheels/tires changes the gear ratio. surely you've noticed all that? i think a good question here is why are you upgrading from one to 7 speeds. oh wait....you NEED it.
if you have a rear dropout spacing that will only fit 5 or 6 speed clusters and yet you need a lower gear than what you've been using while still retaining the high gear your used to, what will happen is that you will necessarily have larger jumps shifting from one gear to the next.
example...
14/16/ 18/21/24/28. say that 28 tooth cog isn't low enough
then you try..
14/16/18/21/24/30
that jump from 24 to 30 is an abrupt change. it may not matter so much under many of the circumstances you ride, but the shifting won't be quite as smooth nor will your cadence.... unless! you simply add another/seventh gear.
14/16/18/21/24/28/32
see how that works? smoother shifting and an even lower gear. too fancy? is that marketing? i'd buy it
#29
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I think evaluating just how many combinations of gears you ride in is the real crux. I have my compact crank up front. I've got five to seven gears on my freewheels (threaded), but of those 5 to 7 gears I really only use about three of them. So what of those other gears? Well it's nice to know they are there if I need them.
I have noticed that riders with indexed shifters use allot more gear combinations than I do. Maybe it's also the training and familiarity. It appears that older riders tend to do a little more mashing before switching gears. And maybe that is just laziness...
I have noticed that riders with indexed shifters use allot more gear combinations than I do. Maybe it's also the training and familiarity. It appears that older riders tend to do a little more mashing before switching gears. And maybe that is just laziness...
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#30
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lol...dude, you've got a bone to pick or something with your "question". no one's trying to convince you to do anything other than what you want with your gears
fyi, any change you make to the size of the chainrings and/or freewheel cogs absolutely changes the gear ratio. that's not marketing. that's physics. even changing the size of your wheels/tires changes the gear ratio. surely you've noticed all that? i think a good question here is why are you upgrading from one to 7 speeds. oh wait....you NEED it.
if you have a rear dropout spacing that will only fit 5 or 6 speed clusters and yet you need a lower gear than what you've been using while still retaining the high gear your used to, what will happen is that you will necessarily have larger jumps shifting from one gear to the next.
example...
14/16/ 18/21/24/28. say that 28 tooth cog isn't low enough
then you try..
14/16/18/21/24/30
that jump from 24 to 30 is an abrupt change. it may not matter so much under many of the circumstances you ride, but the shifting won't be quite as smooth nor will your cadence.... unless! you simply add another/seventh gear.
14/16/18/21/24/28/32
see how that works? smoother shifting and an even lower gear. too fancy? is that marketing? i'd buy it
fyi, any change you make to the size of the chainrings and/or freewheel cogs absolutely changes the gear ratio. that's not marketing. that's physics. even changing the size of your wheels/tires changes the gear ratio. surely you've noticed all that? i think a good question here is why are you upgrading from one to 7 speeds. oh wait....you NEED it.
if you have a rear dropout spacing that will only fit 5 or 6 speed clusters and yet you need a lower gear than what you've been using while still retaining the high gear your used to, what will happen is that you will necessarily have larger jumps shifting from one gear to the next.
example...
14/16/ 18/21/24/28. say that 28 tooth cog isn't low enough
then you try..
14/16/18/21/24/30
that jump from 24 to 30 is an abrupt change. it may not matter so much under many of the circumstances you ride, but the shifting won't be quite as smooth nor will your cadence.... unless! you simply add another/seventh gear.
14/16/18/21/24/28/32
see how that works? smoother shifting and an even lower gear. too fancy? is that marketing? i'd buy it
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"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
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#31
Senior Member
I refuse to believe this is not 100% satire.
#32
Senior Member
I am inclined to think this is a troll question, simply because it asks about upgrading from 1984 technology to 1989 technology. But in case it is sincere:
The difference between low-cost entry level parts and higher-end parts is generally the amount of use you can expect before the moving bits are worn out or start to take more effort to keep in adjustment. A two season old Altus derailleur will have some serious slop and be hard to keep adjustment. A two season old XT derailleur has years to go before it reaches a similar condition.
As for the 'why' people get more gears, the better quality stuff comes with more gears - they stopped making 7 speed Shimano XT parts in 1994 or 95. If you want good quality parts that will last a few years, you get 11 or 12 speed cassettes because that is what comes with the good quality parts.
If you want an answer tailored to your specific scenario - why people are upgrading from 6 speed to 7 speed, well, not many people are doing that and haven't been for at least 30 years. As mentioned above, most 6 speeds have 'freewheel' hubs, which have an unsupported length of axle under the freewheel, and that is a common point of failure. Since the late 80s, most Shimano parts (other manufacturers followed) have been equipped with a 'freehub' rear hub, where the ratchet mechanism is built into the hub and the axle is supported way out at the ends instead of in the middle, making it much more robust. Switching from 6 speed to 7 speed with freewheels made the need for this change more obvious because the added length of unsupported axle greatly increased the frequency of failure.
The difference between low-cost entry level parts and higher-end parts is generally the amount of use you can expect before the moving bits are worn out or start to take more effort to keep in adjustment. A two season old Altus derailleur will have some serious slop and be hard to keep adjustment. A two season old XT derailleur has years to go before it reaches a similar condition.
As for the 'why' people get more gears, the better quality stuff comes with more gears - they stopped making 7 speed Shimano XT parts in 1994 or 95. If you want good quality parts that will last a few years, you get 11 or 12 speed cassettes because that is what comes with the good quality parts.
If you want an answer tailored to your specific scenario - why people are upgrading from 6 speed to 7 speed, well, not many people are doing that and haven't been for at least 30 years. As mentioned above, most 6 speeds have 'freewheel' hubs, which have an unsupported length of axle under the freewheel, and that is a common point of failure. Since the late 80s, most Shimano parts (other manufacturers followed) have been equipped with a 'freehub' rear hub, where the ratchet mechanism is built into the hub and the axle is supported way out at the ends instead of in the middle, making it much more robust. Switching from 6 speed to 7 speed with freewheels made the need for this change more obvious because the added length of unsupported axle greatly increased the frequency of failure.
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#33
Senior Member
The mountain bike I replaced had a 6 speed freewheel. Its 14 - 34T sprockets being evenly spaced with BIG jumps between gears. This made it less likely for me to find the right gear (most comfortable) for many situations.
My new comfort bike's 7 speed freewheel also uses14 - 34T sprockets, But what shimano did is use 6 properly spaced sprockets from 14 - 24T and added a granny cog with 34T. The result is 6 of the most used gears on this 7 speed are better spaced then many 10 and 11 speed cassettes. And I still have an extra low "bailout gear" if needed.
At first I was unhappy with this decades old design But after using it I understand why it is so popular with many entry level bikes to this day (mine's a 2018) when budget limitions make this 7 speed "Megarange" a fine choice if you want to keep the most used gears properly spaced and urprisingly that 10T jump isn't as objectionable as I first thought because it's in such a low gear to start.These work best and often come with a double or triple chaining as the six14 - 24T cogs don't offer much range.
My new comfort bike's 7 speed freewheel also uses14 - 34T sprockets, But what shimano did is use 6 properly spaced sprockets from 14 - 24T and added a granny cog with 34T. The result is 6 of the most used gears on this 7 speed are better spaced then many 10 and 11 speed cassettes. And I still have an extra low "bailout gear" if needed.
At first I was unhappy with this decades old design But after using it I understand why it is so popular with many entry level bikes to this day (mine's a 2018) when budget limitions make this 7 speed "Megarange" a fine choice if you want to keep the most used gears properly spaced and urprisingly that 10T jump isn't as objectionable as I first thought because it's in such a low gear to start.These work best and often come with a double or triple chaining as the six14 - 24T cogs don't offer much range.
#34
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For me and my vintage road bikes, it's about new freewheel availability. The really nice all-chrome Sunrace 7-speeds are easier to find than the 6-speeds.
There's also probably some advantage to having the closer gear ratios. But there may be a disadvantage to the slightly greater wheel dish due to the wider hub spacing.
There's also probably some advantage to having the closer gear ratios. But there may be a disadvantage to the slightly greater wheel dish due to the wider hub spacing.
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#35
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For me and my vintage road bikes, it's about new freewheel availability. The really nice all-chrome Sunrace 7-speeds are easier to find than the 6-speeds.
There's also probably some advantage to having the closer gear ratios. But there may be a disadvantage to the slightly greater wheel dish due to the wider hub spacing.
There's also probably some advantage to having the closer gear ratios. But there may be a disadvantage to the slightly greater wheel dish due to the wider hub spacing.
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#36
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I’ve posted this before so I won’t go into detail, but running 3 cassette cogs for high end, cruising, and low end might be the perfect setup for those who want simplicity and fewer gears, but also want better climbing and more top end when needed.
John
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#38
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When I upgraded [sic] from 6 to 7 speeds -- which was a dozen years ago, on a bike that was 20 years older than that -- it was simply because at that time replacement 7 speed cogs/freehweels were more easily available than 6 speed.
#39
Clark W. Griswold
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To me its more of a marketing, if you bike is a goal then one put new expensive stuff, if its just a means of transportation commuting one care less about all the fancy things.
Does it affect gear ration in any way if you have big cog in the front and small in the rear or other way around, i doubt. but of course there's some marketing explanation that this setup is better in some way etc...
Again i like riding 1 speed so i be fine with either 6 or 7 speeds.
Does it affect gear ration in any way if you have big cog in the front and small in the rear or other way around, i doubt. but of course there's some marketing explanation that this setup is better in some way etc...
Again i like riding 1 speed so i be fine with either 6 or 7 speeds.
Single speed stuff can be quality as well and also there is cheap stuff as well. I didn't get my Sugino 75 Direct Drive because of someone marketing to me, I wanted it because of the features it has that work well for me and like it is something that will last a long time and look good. I don't care who rides on it or if someone somewhere has a cool ad for it. My drivetrain is noticeably smoother because the chainring is properly round and has a profile that works well for the chain. Not marketing just a fact of me riding on it and using it.
Yes any change in gearing will effect gear ratios, again nothing to do with marketing. Having such a massive set of gears is just not fun to ride and not having a low enough gearing for hills is also not fun. I love the bike it looks great but the gearing on it sucks.
I am really curious what your fear of everything being marketing? Just because something is nicer than you are used to it has nothing to do with marketing.
#40
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#41
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Where? it is tourney/bottom level stuff. SunRace is OK stuff but isn't a mark of quality it is lower end stuff . Keep in mind 6 and 7 speed was top of the range back in the late 80s to early 90s. The only really quality multi-speed freewheels are IRD or NOS units. Cassettes came around that same point but were pretty much standard by 7 speed. Yes you could still have 7 speed freewheels but beyond that it came to cassettes or was quite low end or something odd.
#42
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#43
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I disagree. I've had two IRD freewheels fail. You can find threads on related IRD issues here on bikeforums. Not only do I find the all-chrome Sunrace freewheels reliable, but they also shift much better than vintage, unramped cogsets. At least, that's my experience.
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#44
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Where? it is tourney/bottom level stuff. SunRace is OK stuff but isn't a mark of quality it is lower end stuff . Keep in mind 6 and 7 speed was top of the range back in the late 80s to early 90s. The only really quality multi-speed freewheels are IRD or NOS units. Cassettes came around that same point but were pretty much standard by 7 speed. Yes you could still have 7 speed freewheels but beyond that it came to cassettes or was quite low end or something odd.
i don't know anyone who'd argue the freehubs/cassettes have an advantage. years of freewheel use by those who run them only proves their validity and quality though, like anything, they have limits.
#45
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i have a shimano 7spd mega range freewheel on one wheelset. i scoffed and scoffed wanting emphatically to change it out before running the wheels. but, i don't have the tool. so, i said eff it and it's better than i thought it'd be. the jump from 24 to 34 is annoying, but it does shift it quite well. yay hyperglide!! how long will it last? who cares..haha
#46
Senior Member
I skimmed the thread and didn't see this reason so I'll share mine: you can get 7-speed brifters (but not 6 speed or at least not as easily). My brother-in-law bought an old Raleigh to ride but hated the downtube shifters. He didn't need/want a 7-speed freewheel but it was an easy-enough swap and allowed me to install an old pair of Shimano Tourney-level brake/shift levers I had sitting around (came off a bike that went from 7 to 10 speeds!). 'Modernized' his bike for about $25. If I recall correctly, I had to re-space the hub to 128mm, and adjust the dish of the rim slightly to compensate, to position the longer freewheel properly.
#47
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Question about freewheels - my newest bike, which is also my oldest bike, is a 1982 Lotus Supreme. It's got DT friction shifters and 126mm spacing. It's also got two wheelsets, one of which is for freewheels. Currently it's running an old 6-speed, 13-26 Shimano 600 freewheel. Would a NEW 7 speed Sunrace or similar freewheel fit the hub? Obviously with friction shifting spacing between the gears is not a problem, but will it fit between the spokes and the dropouts?
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#48
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Question about freewheels - my newest bike, which is also my oldest bike, is a 1982 Lotus Supreme. It's got DT friction shifters and 126mm spacing. It's also got two wheelsets, one of which is for freewheels. Currently it's running an old 6-speed, 13-26 Shimano 600 freewheel. Would a NEW 7 speed Sunrace or similar freewheel fit the hub? Obviously with friction shifting spacing between the gears is not a problem, but will it fit between the spokes and the dropouts?
#49
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My experience is similar to thook's. I had my rear DO spacing changed to 126 mm (from 120) to fit 125 mm Campy hubs. A Shimano 7-speed freewheel fits fine. I have heard that there sometimes are problems with the smallest cog and chainstay wanting to be in the same space, so it will probably work for you but might not.