SharpByCoop 

I am SO thankful for the interwebs.

I have the frame almost completely stripped. When I got to the Campagnola crank arms, they had a curious arrangement: A RH thread removal bolt, and a LH threaded collar. Ugghh.

I managed to get them out unscrewing both 1 turn each in opposing directions. What a nutty system (So I thought). Then tried installing my RH crank removal tool. Nope. So I went and looked up the proper LH threaded tool to purchase. NO SUCH THING. WTF?

THEN, a google search brought me to an old post on BF where I learned to simply LEAVE the collar screwed in and let the removal bolt jam against the collar to extract. Hence why it was LH thread.

Got it. No parts ruined! Came off nicely. Next.....

Uh, ohhhhh. BB removal tool I have does not fit. Looked up others and nothing readily available. Mine has 18 splines....

Apparently this is a proprietary 'Phil Wood' tool and BB installation. Whodathunk. (Who is Phil Wood?)

SO, I will have everything cleaned soon and Evaporust the shiny bits, yet I have to order this special remover.

That's my update.

trainman999

SharpByCoop
Phil Wood, some of the best hubs and BB, if you havent ordered a tool yet pm me I have a extra one

3alarmer

...yeah, that special Phil Wood BB removal tool is painful to buy, if you only use it once or twice.
But in the defense of Phil Wood as a company, they got there first with the sealed unit BB, so everyone else, like Shimano, should have used their standard.

Those sealed BB's from Phil Wood are guaranteed forever, so if you notice any roughness in the bearings, while it's removed for your project, you can send it back to them to have the bearings replaced. They are kind of pricey to buy new, and the retaining rings might be installed with Loctite (make that probably). So it might take a little heat to soften the installation compound, to remove them. Also, they are directional in nature, so when you reinstall it eventually, make sure you understand which end goes in which direction.

The crank bolts you're talking about are "self extracting", which must have sounded like a good idea at the time. I've had mixed results with them. Sometimes they work great, and sometimes less great.

pastorbobnlnh 

I've been running a Phil Wood bottom bracket in my P13 since I've owned it (some 15 years now). I've never needed to remove it. I thought I had spotted a Phil BB in the first pictures posted of your Paramount.

If your BB is spinning like it should and you can protect it against any damage while you work on the frame, there's no need to pull it out. They are truly bomb-proof.

SharpByCoop 

trainman999 PM sent. Thanks for the offer. I will draw on you.

3alarmer pastorbobnlnh Thanks for the education on Phil Wood. Apparently he is ICONIC.

I would prefer removing it, especially as I want to strip the frame with paint remover.

It would behoove this 50-yr-old bike to have all threads cleaned and ready to disassemble in ANOTHER 50 years!

This said, let's hope for a clean extraction. I'll get to that next week. The arms came off nicely, so I expect more of the same.

Off to do a firm ride on my Le Tour 2 this afternoon. Schwinn days are FUN days!

SharpByCoop 

I'm working with trainman999 who is sending me a Phil Wood BB tool. l'll get that off. Thank you, Galon!

I removed these parts, and first cleaned them in a kerosene parts washer I own, and then soaked them in Evapo-Rust for a day. I love how clean that gets things.





Once I looked closely at these brake components, I realized they are not even close to what came new or close on this bike. Good stuff, but.....

Taking a tip from bikingshearer on original components, I looked on eBay and found a BRAND NEW OLD STOCK set of Weinmann center pulls. I have some janky pairs left over from an old Continental, yet they are corroded and not mint.




These are MINT. I will swap them. I may have to modify mounts, but I'm up to it.

Considering a chrome frame. Thoughts? Persuade or dissuade me.

Coop

trainman999

Chroming the frame not a great idea, to do it properly the chromer will have to take the exixting chrome off, this has a trndency to erode the silver in the joints. When it is rechromer your chromer will need to be aware of hydrogen embritilment and how to deal with it, otherwise the chances of a frame cracking goes up. If you really want a chrome Paramount keep looking for one your size you will have invested about the same amount as your frame + a good chrome job.

3alarmer

...I would not chrome a Paramount that I had not yet ridden. But I paint and get pretty decent results in the back yard, when it's hot here and the wind is not blowing dust around. I use regular Rustoleum can for a self etching primer, and a variety of sources for color coats, with a final application of a coat or two of 2 part urethane Clear Glamour over the color coats and stickers. If you want a final result resembling the original Schwinn paint from these years, you need to overcoat the primer with a metallic silver, then overcoat that with a semi-transparent enamel in whatever color you choose.



I have a chrome P 15 here, and it does shine spectacularly. I just can't afford to re-do something like that here in California. The problem you will run into with re-chroming this frame is that if it was originally painted, the only parts of it that are fully polished are the places where the chrome was exposed on the original. So unless your chrome guy is willing to do that, you'll get mixed results. Paint, OTOH, is relatively forgiving in this respect. the final clear urethane goes on and flows to a high gloss shine.




Modolo side pull brakes were a common substitute for Campagnolo. But center pull brakes work fine for me as well.Not sure why you'd want to modify by adding the center pull cable stop between the rear seat stays. Seems like extra work I would prefer to avoid. But this would be the time to do it, if you are going to do it.

SharpByCoop 

So.... I've been busy. This took a LONG time, because the previous paint was VERY hard.

Lots and lots of chemical stripper, and wire brush, and scraper, and coarse steel wool and elbow grease.

It is clean though. The front lugs were locally polished (chromed?) and probably the fork. That was completely painted over.

From paint to bare metal.

The Phil Wood BB is unscathed and in great order, and I am thankful to trainman999 for sending out a tool. Due to arrive.

Despite appropriate cautions I am going to bring this to my source in Bridgeport CT: Reliable Plating I'll ask Scott Cleary (owner) how buffed/shiny he can make it, or should I skip chroming and paint.

He's a good egg, and has a staff that did TERRIFIC work on my '53 Black Phantom springer parts. If NFG then I'll source out paint.

Stay posted. Thanks again for your advices.

Coop

juvela

-----

you might wish to consider removal of alterations prior to refinishing


-----

SwimmerMike 

My '73 Paramount was a chroming of an originally pained frame and whoever did the work (previous owner had it done) did a fantastic job. So it is possible to get great results, but it does take someone that knows what they are doing.

There was a post by [MENTION=46382]bikingshearer[/MENTION] a month or two ago about a fork that he has that was rechromed and years later the fork failed badly. It ended up rusting due to some effect with the vent holes and the rechroming (discussion of the theory is in the post) that ended up causing internal rusting and finally the failure. I rode with him on Saturday and he showed me the fork in person. Scary.

My takeaway is that not only does the chrome shop need to be able to do all the prep work to make the chrome look great, but they also need to know the intricacies of chroming a frame.

bikingshearer 

You mean this fork? (In fairness, it was over 60 years old.)



Here's the thread SwimmerMike mentioned. Some good info in there from the C&V/Borg collective..

SharpByCoop, quiz your chrome guy carefully about how he plans to flush out the fork blades. Ditto for the seat stays and any tube that only has one or (preferably) two vent holes in it. Those vent holes let chemicals in that, apparently, you very much want flushed out. Something about some sort of galvanic corrosion. I can't be sure that is what did my fork in, but it is something I strongly suggest you satisfy yourself that your guy knows about and is equipped to deal with.

Put another way: don't be like me. I got lucky. You probably would, too. But why take the risk?

ryanl092

That’s what you guys mentioned last Saturday. After consulting with both of you on Ron cooper, I accidentally bought a Paramount today at a stealth price. See the other thread.

SharpByCoop 

bikingshearer Excellent advice, and what a cautionary reminder. WOW! Thanks for adding to this.

I'll ask his advice on this, and with a business over 60 years old, I am certain I'm not the only project with internal corrosion concerns. Drainage WILL be needed. I'll let you know.

So far everything appears sturdy for either paint OR chrome. Yes, the seat clamp and hanger area need attention.

SharpByCoop 

OK! So I called and talked at length with Scott Clearly the owner of renowned Reliable Plating in Bridgeport, CT.

I told him I had this great frame apart and sanded, and can I paint it OR Chrome it..?

Scott: "Paint it. It's WAY too complicated to get all the fluids and acids out of the inner tubes, and requires so much hand work to polish to the degree it would need."

I appreciated his educated response and told him we'll work together on smaller bits soon. He is honest and a pro.

Now... do I wish to attempt painting on my own or job that out. I've never tried 'Liquid mask' to know how that works. I"m pretty skilled and patient, though.

LMK thoughts. Thanks for the heads up on chroming. I wasn't blindsided.

SharpByCoop 

trainman999 Thanks again for sending me this important tool. Yes, it was lodged in there tightly, yet this tool grips DEEP and was powerful.



Note how much sanding and buffing chroming would need. Paint fills these voids easier I am sure.

merziac

^^^^^^^
The plot sickens here, Cinelli BB shell on a 71 Paramount, .

Serious rework of this frame at some point besides the paint.

SharpByCoop 

OK. Did a search. I'm not the ONLY one with a Cinelli BB, but it's rare. HA!

Well... I'll consider this like a mangy old dog at the Rescue Shelter. It needs love and attention because it's been ABUSED.

Thank you. I think.

merziac

This one is even newer than the others so.... refit, all good, probably Waterford so Schwinn DNA through and through, lives to fight on forever.

SharpByCoop 

Hi friends,

I posted a followup to this thread after my restoration below. I SO APPRECIATE the tips and tools. What a difference!

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...l#post23112678

Thank you.

Coop

xiaoman1 

OP,
As merziac has stated it is very true different components could have been requested from Schwinn on their "P"'s. The normal groups would have been, Campagnolo, Weinmann, and Shimano R.D. (replacing Campagnolo Gran Turismo rear derailer on the P-15) , however, some of the components appear to be earlier (derailer?) . some later (crank and wheels?) . The brakes and saddle also seen to have been upgrade.I have not seen any "P"'s of that vintage those elements hung on them etc.
Many of these things have already mentioned by other members.
In any event it is a nice looking bike in a beautiful color!
Good luck with the resto, Ben

SharpByCoop 

I'll call this bike 'Amalgam'. You are correct: It's got a bit of everything. :/ C'est la Vie!
Thank you.