Do you think Pogacar is doping?
#26
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And don't make it seem that it's just sniggling little ccorners of this forum where these questions are being raised. You know it's a widespread suspicion.
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/07/tade...-insinuations/
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/07/tade...-insinuations/
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https://www.velonews.com/events/tour...-insinuations/
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It's not a moral question, it's a question of what is going on in the races present-day. I care if somebody has an unfair advantage on the road now, and what they did 15 years ago is immaterial. You have no evidence behind your insinuation.
The questions are raised about Pogacar because his apparent power is anomalous. I don't know if he is clean or dirty, but his refusal to release real power numbers doesn't help.
The questions are raised about Pogacar because his apparent power is anomalous. I don't know if he is clean or dirty, but his refusal to release real power numbers doesn't help.
Apparent power is basically false evidence, but whatever, we want you to prove you're innocent for now, that is till we produce some other fake nugget.
But 'you know who' is an exciting attacker, an 'amazing' rider, so who cares about his past.
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No what someone did 15 years ago is relevant, especially when they were convicted on irrefutable evidence yet have never acknowledged their guilt and tried for years to evade punishment on technicalities. Apply the same common sense that you would with a convicted criminal.
Apparent power is basically false evidence, but whatever, we want you to prove you're innocent for now, that is till we produce some other fake nugget.
But 'you know who' is an exciting attacker, an 'amazing' rider, so who cares about his past.
Apparent power is basically false evidence, but whatever, we want you to prove you're innocent for now, that is till we produce some other fake nugget.
But 'you know who' is an exciting attacker, an 'amazing' rider, so who cares about his past.
As to the 15 years ago thing, you are affirming my earlier point - the only thing that would satisfy you is extended culpability and a permanent ban. I suppose that you also believe that all guilty of moral or criminal transgression should be judged differently from others for the rest of their lives . But that's a subject for P&R, where I no longer care to waste my time.
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Apparent power is not evidence at all and I said so. it adds to questions that have been raised about somebody who blew the GC field apart. I am not convicting nor do I imagine that i'm in a position to do so. I'm saying that he should be more transparent. You have no arguments against this.
As to the 15 years ago thing, you are affirming my earlier point - the only thing that would satisfy you is extended culpability and a permanent ban. I suppose that you also believe that all guilty of moral or criminal transgression should be judged differently from others for the rest of their lives . But that's a subject for P&R, where I no longer care to waste my time.
As to the 15 years ago thing, you are affirming my earlier point - the only thing that would satisfy you is extended culpability and a permanent ban. I suppose that you also believe that all guilty of moral or criminal transgression should be judged differently from others for the rest of their lives . But that's a subject for P&R, where I no longer care to waste my time.
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#31
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Why did you dodge my question?
Why would any pro release their power data?
It would give competitors an advantage, letting know where his weaknesses are and where he is very strong and thus where the best place to attack him would be. So's that?
#32
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You are lacking in imagination, perhaps. He doesn't need a 3rd lung if it's bike that is the doping agent.
https://www.velonews.com/events/tour...-insinuations/
https://www.velonews.com/events/tour...-insinuations/
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#33
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Yes.
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#34
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Ask Richard Carapaz, who like many other pros, posted power data from the Tour directly to Strava. Here is his stage 17.
Glad that you aren't a rube.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5626776242/overview
Glad that you aren't a rube.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5626776242/overview
#35
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Ask Richard Carapaz, who like many other pros, posted power data from the Tour directly to Strava. Here is his stage 17.
Glad that you aren't a rube.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5626776242/overview
Glad that you aren't a rube.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5626776242/overview
So?
And, are you going to answer my question? So, let me say....
You are naive to believe the Strava data that you posted.
If he doped, it was maybe 3 or 5% gain. Not 50%.
His margin was not huge. The power file would not vindicate him with ilk like you.
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The Carapaz data? Are you alleging that that is faked?
And your comment about vindication with "ilk like me" suggests that you have a reading comprehension problem. I have not accused Pogacar of cheating and I do not have a strong opinion on it based on available information.
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Seen this before...
I've lived through the 90s and the 00's PEDs eras. They both started with glorious new heroes. Headlines of magnificent victories. Fresh faces exalted by the cycling media.
And then you started hearing whispers. And not far down the road, an asterisk was placed upon every podium. Every victory.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...won't get fooled again."
As entertaining as the TdF is, they have to do much more to wipe away my skepticism and win back my trust.
And then you started hearing whispers. And not far down the road, an asterisk was placed upon every podium. Every victory.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...won't get fooled again."
As entertaining as the TdF is, they have to do much more to wipe away my skepticism and win back my trust.
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No what someone did 15 years ago is relevant, especially when they were convicted on irrefutable evidence yet have never acknowledged their guilt and tried for years to evade punishment on technicalities. Apply the same common sense that you would with a convicted criminal.
Apparent power is basically false evidence, but whatever, we want you to prove you're innocent for now, that is till we produce some other fake nugget.
But 'you know who' is an exciting attacker, an 'amazing' rider, so who cares about his past.
Apparent power is basically false evidence, but whatever, we want you to prove you're innocent for now, that is till we produce some other fake nugget.
But 'you know who' is an exciting attacker, an 'amazing' rider, so who cares about his past.
I might not be opposed to higher stakes penalties in some situations. I am opposed to lingering post-penalty double secret probation guilt trips. The penalty is what it is, contrite or not. Then racing again until the next finding and conviction.
I have no basis for emoting that he is clean or he is dirty or this or that. I like fact-based discussion and, even better, evidence-based ones. Until then, I prefer to suspend disbelief and enjoy the race. That's not the same thing as being naive about the possibilities, but it's such a slippery slope to disenchantment and bitterness that I'll just holdl off on the fun sucking ideas. If they come to light, I can watch it later on the WADA ticker or Oprah.
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#41
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I've lived through the 90s and the 00's PEDs eras. They both started with glorious new heroes. Headlines of magnificent victories. Fresh faces exalted by the cycling media.
And then you started hearing whispers. And not far down the road, an asterisk was placed upon every podium. Every victory.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...won't get fooled again."
As entertaining as the TdF is, they have to do much more to wipe away my skepticism and win back my trust.
And then you started hearing whispers. And not far down the road, an asterisk was placed upon every podium. Every victory.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...won't get fooled again."
As entertaining as the TdF is, they have to do much more to wipe away my skepticism and win back my trust.
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Sounds like the UCI is testing bicycles for evidence of mechanical doping:
"The UCI said it used magnetic scanning tablets on 606 bikes before the start of stages, and put 114 bikes through its mobile X-ray lab after stages...In a press note Monday, the UCI outlined its testing protocol, saying that each day’s winner, as well as the GC leader, have their bikes X-rayed after each stage, along with other random controls throughout the race."
Tour de France: UCI says no infractions following 720 inspections for 'motor doping' | VeloNews.com
Still, the fact that they're introducing new tests for the Olympics suggests that there may be some insufficiency with the current testing protocol.
"The UCI said it used magnetic scanning tablets on 606 bikes before the start of stages, and put 114 bikes through its mobile X-ray lab after stages...In a press note Monday, the UCI outlined its testing protocol, saying that each day’s winner, as well as the GC leader, have their bikes X-rayed after each stage, along with other random controls throughout the race."
Tour de France: UCI says no infractions following 720 inspections for 'motor doping' | VeloNews.com
Still, the fact that they're introducing new tests for the Olympics suggests that there may be some insufficiency with the current testing protocol.
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I did. But it's drowned out by #20 and #28.
Absolutely take precedent into consideration in the penalty phase and perhaps in informing the immediate actions in response to an adverse finding. Maybe even dig harder to find that adverse finding. But until there is one, we either have a system where riders come back from their mandatory time in the wilderness, or we don't. Like MinnMan , I read your pass for Pogacar and your non-pass for Valverdemort, he who shall not be named, as advocating applying a standard that isn't part of the sport at this time. I don't grasp what else is different in the cases other than the offense for which the penalty has either been served and it's in the past, or it isn't (what I infer from your #20 and #28, despite musings to the contrary).
Perhaps there could or should be a more severe or enduring sanction, but that's a separate discussion.
I also note that the pressure for a lesser specimen to dope so that they could be a marginal rider may be just as great as it is for a proven mutant specimen like Pogacar to dope so he can win it all, but the surveillance is much less for those off the podium. It's no less meaningful that the sport be cleaned up in the grupetto and domestiques, to level the playing field for those that didn't dope and didn't get a contract.
Absolutely take precedent into consideration in the penalty phase and perhaps in informing the immediate actions in response to an adverse finding. Maybe even dig harder to find that adverse finding. But until there is one, we either have a system where riders come back from their mandatory time in the wilderness, or we don't. Like MinnMan , I read your pass for Pogacar and your non-pass for Valverdemort, he who shall not be named, as advocating applying a standard that isn't part of the sport at this time. I don't grasp what else is different in the cases other than the offense for which the penalty has either been served and it's in the past, or it isn't (what I infer from your #20 and #28, despite musings to the contrary).
Perhaps there could or should be a more severe or enduring sanction, but that's a separate discussion.
I also note that the pressure for a lesser specimen to dope so that they could be a marginal rider may be just as great as it is for a proven mutant specimen like Pogacar to dope so he can win it all, but the surveillance is much less for those off the podium. It's no less meaningful that the sport be cleaned up in the grupetto and domestiques, to level the playing field for those that didn't dope and didn't get a contract.
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#45
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If you win you dope? Accusing one of doping because they won is stupid.
Instead of tarnishing the reputation of someone, you should be using your mouth to chastise the UCI and WADA or whomever is responsible to tell them you have doubts about their effectiveness.
But until someone is proven beyond a doubt to have doped, I don't think they should be said to be a doper.
Instead of tarnishing the reputation of someone, you should be using your mouth to chastise the UCI and WADA or whomever is responsible to tell them you have doubts about their effectiveness.
But until someone is proven beyond a doubt to have doped, I don't think they should be said to be a doper.
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I'm mercurial, but Pogacar is not doping, mechanically or chemically. As slcbob points out, there is so much spotlight on the podium, and from minus-7, that I don't think it's feasible. We'd have heard about it.
Look at Pogacar, he is a fantastic specimen. He's been riding since a little kid and putting others to shame. He has not crashed constantly, and (as LR pointed out) actively avoided the wheels of those that do. He's wicked tactical, and always has a cool demeanor. Is he a psychopath? Most likely. I loved how he's reeled back Kwiakowskikwiatkowski.
Could he be the early work of Doctor Virginijus and other eastern European scientists? More likely then simple chemical or mechanical doping.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virg...%A0ik%C5%A1nys
Look at Pogacar, he is a fantastic specimen. He's been riding since a little kid and putting others to shame. He has not crashed constantly, and (as LR pointed out) actively avoided the wheels of those that do. He's wicked tactical, and always has a cool demeanor. Is he a psychopath? Most likely. I loved how he's reeled back Kwiakowskikwiatkowski.
Could he be the early work of Doctor Virginijus and other eastern European scientists? More likely then simple chemical or mechanical doping.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virg...%A0ik%C5%A1nys
The research interests of V. Šikšnys include structure-function relationships of enzymes involved in nucleic acids metabolism. V. Šikšnys and members of his laboratory perform biochemical, biophysical and structural studies of proteins involved in bacterial antiviral defense, including restriction endonucleases and CRISPR-Cas systems.
#47
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It is hard not to be skeptical.
I remember watching stage 17 in 1991 on the road on Alpe d'Huez and seeing Indurain with Gianni Bugno and Chiapucci if I remember. Indurain looked like he was barely doing tempo. A guy who couldn't finish a tour in recent years and could not climb with these two in his dreams. Then, maybe two minutes later were Hampsten and Lemond. I was perplexed. How could this horse of a man outclimb two of the best in the world and look like it is a club ride.
Pogacar's performance does NOT leave me scratching my head. I don't think he doped
I remember watching stage 17 in 1991 on the road on Alpe d'Huez and seeing Indurain with Gianni Bugno and Chiapucci if I remember. Indurain looked like he was barely doing tempo. A guy who couldn't finish a tour in recent years and could not climb with these two in his dreams. Then, maybe two minutes later were Hampsten and Lemond. I was perplexed. How could this horse of a man outclimb two of the best in the world and look like it is a club ride.
Pogacar's performance does NOT leave me scratching my head. I don't think he doped
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I'm mercurial, but Pogacar is not doping, mechanically or chemically. As slcbob points out, there is so much spotlight on the podium, and from minus-7, that I don't think it's feasible. We'd have heard about it.
Look at Pogacar, he is a fantastic specimen. He's been riding since a little kid and putting others to shame. He has not crashed constantly, and (as LR pointed out) actively avoided the wheels of those that do. He's wicked tactical, and always has a cool demeanor. Is he a psychopath? Most likely. I loved how he's reeled back Kwiakowskikwiatkowski.
Could he be the early work of Doctor Virginijus and other eastern European scientists? More likely then simple chemical or mechanical doping.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virg...%A0ik%C5%A1nys
Look at Pogacar, he is a fantastic specimen. He's been riding since a little kid and putting others to shame. He has not crashed constantly, and (as LR pointed out) actively avoided the wheels of those that do. He's wicked tactical, and always has a cool demeanor. Is he a psychopath? Most likely. I loved how he's reeled back Kwiakowskikwiatkowski.
Could he be the early work of Doctor Virginijus and other eastern European scientists? More likely then simple chemical or mechanical doping.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virg...%A0ik%C5%A1nys
#49
Seriously, does it really matter. With the approval of TUEs supported by the industry and their medical staff almost any drug can be approved and often are for training. Clean up for a few weeks before any race and your home free. Anyone that believes that these guys compete at this level on aspirin is delusional. This does not make all of them druggies, it simply makes them human. Still the greatest show on earth, love bike racing!!! One more thing, to suggest that a rider is using unapproved drugs cheapens the sport and is strictly hear say and mean spirited bull ****.
#50
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Both #20 & #28 relate to public perceptions of riders with prior convictions not any official sanctions beyond perhaps more active survalence and attention from random drug testing.
There's a difference between serving time and character reform.
There's a difference between serving time and character reform.
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