I Just Don't Understand...
04-09-18, 01:28 AM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697
Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Yeah, because it makes so much more sense to buy $450 worth of overpriced toys than $30 worth of spare batteries and an external charger. Stopping for a couple minutes every two hours to change batteries isn't exactly a horrible burden outside of a serious race. Most places, you'll be due to refill water bottles by then anyway.
04-09-18, 01:32 AM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697
Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I find out when a local off roader gets hurt *if* they hobble in and ask for help carrying the remains of the bike in for a repair estimate. It's not in even the local paper unless it's somebody well-known enough that anything they do is news, nor is it going to end up in any national statistics unless there's a death or major long term disability from it.
04-09-18, 03:02 AM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,733
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Liked 3,713 Times
in
1,956 Posts
Though I cannot back it up with hard data, I still assume a lot fewer mountain bikers get hit by cars while out on the trails.
04-10-18, 07:34 AM
#54
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,036
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,599 Times
in
1,079 Posts
Even less likely, is that (m)any cyclists will save a dime on legal fees because they keep their camera rolling. Can you site (m)any specific examples of cyclists saving on legal fees because they were rollling their Cycliq (or any other) camera while cycling?
04-10-18, 07:59 AM
#55
Senior Member
This type if stuff I do not understand either considering as long as the driver has a license and is not drunk he would not be convicted of a crime if he stops. I do hope you heal up to ride again though.
04-10-18, 10:06 AM
#56
☢
"Protect" yourself? Really? How and from what, and how likely? Any more likely than picking up a big stick in an incident?
Even less likely, is that (m)any cyclists will save a dime on legal fees because they keep their camera rolling. Can you site (m)any specific examples of cyclists saving on legal fees because they were rollling their Cycliq (or any other) camera while cycling?
Even less likely, is that (m)any cyclists will save a dime on legal fees because they keep their camera rolling. Can you site (m)any specific examples of cyclists saving on legal fees because they were rollling their Cycliq (or any other) camera while cycling?
04-10-18, 10:40 AM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,733
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Liked 3,713 Times
in
1,956 Posts
I would imagine---though I have no evidence---that if a cyclist provided footage of the encounter to the opposing insurance company, that might convince that insurance company to settle instead of going to court. of course, the insurance company would be paying court costs anyway.
But as [MENTION=400359]KraneXL[/MENTION] notes, video is excellent evidence in a civil trial and could lead to a conviction in a criminal trial, which would very much enhance the odds of winning a civil suit as well.
But as [MENTION=400359]KraneXL[/MENTION] notes, video is excellent evidence in a civil trial and could lead to a conviction in a criminal trial, which would very much enhance the odds of winning a civil suit as well.
04-10-18, 11:51 AM
#58
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,036
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,599 Times
in
1,079 Posts
^This.
I've had incidents on camera and it changes the situation from angry liar cager vs me to angry liar cager vs video evidence against him.
That is kind of the point. It changes a his/her word vs your word into a more clear cut incident with evidence against the liar.
Then in a hit and run incident, it could help find the perpetrator. You could then get a lawyer who could get you many thousands in pain and suffering from the hit and run ahole's insurance. Could've done potentially exactly this for the OP.
I've had incidents on camera and it changes the situation from angry liar cager vs me to angry liar cager vs video evidence against him.
That is kind of the point. It changes a his/her word vs your word into a more clear cut incident with evidence against the liar.
Then in a hit and run incident, it could help find the perpetrator. You could then get a lawyer who could get you many thousands in pain and suffering from the hit and run ahole's insurance. Could've done potentially exactly this for the OP.
Another issue that may be suspect is the integrity of video provided and controlled if not edited by one side of a legal dispute.
I really doubt that all the electrons "burned" by cyclists taking videos provide much more than entertainment value to the cyclists and fodder for YouTube.
04-10-18, 05:07 PM
#59
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Lots of things "could happen", but do they happen? If so, is it sometimes, once in a million blue moons, or maybe almost never?
Another issue that may be suspect is the integrity of video provided and controlled if not edited by one side of a legal dispute.
I really doubt that all the electrons "burned" by cyclists taking videos provide much more than entertainment value to the cyclists and fodder for YouTube.
Another issue that may be suspect is the integrity of video provided and controlled if not edited by one side of a legal dispute.
I really doubt that all the electrons "burned" by cyclists taking videos provide much more than entertainment value to the cyclists and fodder for YouTube.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/driver-...nt-goes-viral/
Sometimes video is used to prosecute the guilty.
Then there is this:
A Tennessee private school leader faces hit-and-run charges after allegedly running into a cyclist on National Park Service parkway Saturday morning. Video from a camera mounted on another cyclist’s helmet shows a black SUV knocking over a cyclist and speeding away.
But indeed go on and deny that video can be a viable witness for cyclists. You must have this real thing about technology.
04-10-18, 05:48 PM
#60
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,036
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,599 Times
in
1,079 Posts
No, sometimes the stuff actually makes the news, and causes retractions by the guilty party.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/driver-...nt-goes-viral/
Sometimes video is used to prosecute the guilty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wamImk70Xg
Then there is this:
Video shows SUV in hit-and-run with cyclist on Natchez Trace Parkway | News & Observer
But indeed go on and deny that video can be a viable witness for cyclists. You must have this real thing about technology.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/driver-...nt-goes-viral/
Sometimes video is used to prosecute the guilty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wamImk70Xg
Then there is this:
Video shows SUV in hit-and-run with cyclist on Natchez Trace Parkway | News & Observer
But indeed go on and deny that video can be a viable witness for cyclists. You must have this real thing about technology.
Lots of things "can happen", even highly problematic and unlikely events. A man biting a dog probably would make the news too, because it would be highly unusual but could happen sometimes.
04-10-18, 06:08 PM
#61
Senior Member
I don’t believe a christmas tree on a bike has ever saved anyone’s life. So I don’t have a christmas tree on my bike.
But I won’t tell you what to put on your bike. If you want to ride with a christmas tree that’s your business.
-mr. bill
But I won’t tell you what to put on your bike. If you want to ride with a christmas tree that’s your business.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 04-10-18 at 06:13 PM.
04-10-18, 09:48 PM
#62
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,036
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,599 Times
in
1,079 Posts
Some people have great faith in the protective power/properties of religious medallions and figurines hanging from their mirror or sitting on the dashboard of their vehicle; in their minds it couldn't hurt and every little bit might help, that's their business too.
04-11-18, 08:30 AM
#63
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
I don't believe that cyclists running cameras and documenting every ride provides them any kind of significant safety or legal "protection" or legal fee insurance, and their utility for cyclists beyond entertainment value as is greatly exaggerated. Always riding with a partner could also provide a viable witness in case of an incident but I wouldn't recommend it if that was the only reason.
Lots of things "can happen", even highly problematic and unlikely events. A man biting a dog probably would make the news too, because it would be highly unusual but could happen sometimes.
Lots of things "can happen", even highly problematic and unlikely events. A man biting a dog probably would make the news too, because it would be highly unusual but could happen sometimes.
I provided you with three quick easy to find examples of how camaras made a positive difference in a car/bike "conflict" situation. There are many more such examples.
Even riding with a partner in the Nachez Trace situation wasn't enough... it was video that made the difference.
Yes, ultimately it IS too bad it comes to this, but apparently motorists who cause harm to cyclists either have poor memories, or are in constant denial about what they have done, and video seems to be the only way to balance the situation.
Last edited by genec; 04-11-18 at 08:38 AM.
04-11-18, 09:27 AM
#64
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,036
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,599 Times
in
1,079 Posts
As I stated previously, the few isolated cases where cycling video "protection" actually proved useful in settling a court case are probably as frequent as man biting dog incidents. Those who find the negligible possibility of extra "protection" worth the bother and cost of running video camera equipment to record every ride, should go for it, the piece of mind for such individuals may be a tangible benefit.
04-11-18, 09:48 AM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13,053
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Liked 4,079 Times
in
2,641 Posts
Out of the injuries you list, I've only had the abrasions and broken ribs.
Abrasions differ. It's a matter of depth, area and location. The bigger, deeper and the stretchier part of skin they're at, the longer they cause trouble.
Initially horribly looking patches on thighs and back can scab over and be virtually trouble free in days. Smaller, deeper injuries on knees and elbows will take longer.
Skin can get a lot of healing done in 7-10 days.
Ribs - well, I messed up my recovery. Didn't eat the painkillers.
Compensated by locking my torso up in a cramped - but initially pain-free - posture.
By the time the ribs healed, the trouble really started.
If you need painkillers to breathe, walk and sit naturally - take them.
Expect two weeks or so before you can do normal things like reaching for high shelves w/o stabs of pain.
Full healing will take longer.
I've had a guy crossing over from the oncoming lane in a deliberate effort to scare me into the ditch.
He nearly lost it on the gravel of the hard shoulder and nearly ended up in the ditch himself.
In a way I'm almost grateful that he didn't. It would have posed something of a moral dilemma if I'd had to decide whether to help him or not.
Abrasions differ. It's a matter of depth, area and location. The bigger, deeper and the stretchier part of skin they're at, the longer they cause trouble.
Initially horribly looking patches on thighs and back can scab over and be virtually trouble free in days. Smaller, deeper injuries on knees and elbows will take longer.
Skin can get a lot of healing done in 7-10 days.
Ribs - well, I messed up my recovery. Didn't eat the painkillers.
Compensated by locking my torso up in a cramped - but initially pain-free - posture.
By the time the ribs healed, the trouble really started.
If you need painkillers to breathe, walk and sit naturally - take them.
Expect two weeks or so before you can do normal things like reaching for high shelves w/o stabs of pain.
Full healing will take longer.
I've had a guy crossing over from the oncoming lane in a deliberate effort to scare me into the ditch.
He nearly lost it on the gravel of the hard shoulder and nearly ended up in the ditch himself.
In a way I'm almost grateful that he didn't. It would have posed something of a moral dilemma if I'd had to decide whether to help him or not.
For broken ribs, the derivatives of the poppy plant, both natural and synthetic, are God's gift. They allow us to breath deeply enough for the oxygen and sleep we need to heal properly. I pity all who cannot or will not use them for that purpose. (And yes, I know very well the issues some have with them. If I were in those shoes, I would think of bike riding as walking a highwire without a safety net.)
Ben
04-11-18, 10:19 AM
#66
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Note that I used the qualifier "significant" as in significant safety or legal "protection" or legal fee insurance. I also stated the legal utility value is "exaggerated". Neither statement would indicate that a constantly running camera could never capture video that could possibly be useful in a legal proceeding. I wouldn't count on it, or use such a "benefit" as a selling point for video recording bicycle rides. If anything, harping on the need for this use, is a negative sales pitch for bicycle riding itself.
As I stated previously, the few isolated cases where cycling video "protection" actually proved useful in settling a court case are probably as frequent as man biting dog incidents. Those who find the negligible possibility of extra "protection" worth the bother and cost of running video camera equipment to record every ride, should go for it, the piece of mind for such individuals may be a tangible benefit.
As I stated previously, the few isolated cases where cycling video "protection" actually proved useful in settling a court case are probably as frequent as man biting dog incidents. Those who find the negligible possibility of extra "protection" worth the bother and cost of running video camera equipment to record every ride, should go for it, the piece of mind for such individuals may be a tangible benefit.
Never mind the fact that every motorist out there is required to carry insurance, in spite of the fact that a driver may go an entire lifetime without incident.... yet, should an incident occur, they will be ready for that event. (Yes, I am well aware of the fact that there are copious studies and actuarial tables that predict the odds of auto crashes... too bad we do not have such accurate data for cyclists... all we have is little more than anecdotes and sensational newspaper accounts.)
04-11-18, 10:33 AM
#67
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,036
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,599 Times
in
1,079 Posts
Wow, sounds amost as pitiful as Forester arguing about the distraction of mirrors.
Never mind the fact that every motorist out there is required to carry insurance, in spite of the fact that a driver may go an entire lifetime without incident.... yet, should an incident occur, they will be ready for that event. (Yes, I am well aware of the fact that there are copious studies and actuarial tables that predict the odds of auto crashes... too bad we do not have such accurate data for cyclists... all we have is little more than anecdotes and sensational newspaper accounts.)
Never mind the fact that every motorist out there is required to carry insurance, in spite of the fact that a driver may go an entire lifetime without incident.... yet, should an incident occur, they will be ready for that event. (Yes, I am well aware of the fact that there are copious studies and actuarial tables that predict the odds of auto crashes... too bad we do not have such accurate data for cyclists... all we have is little more than anecdotes and sensational newspaper accounts.)
It doesn't seem to be responding to anything posted by anybody in this thread.
04-11-18, 10:55 AM
#68
Arizona Dessert
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,029
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Liked 2,169 Times
in
1,288 Posts
It is also possible that some cyclists, consciously or not, will take more risks and/or not proactively remove themselves from a developing situation because they have a camera. A defensive response early makes for much less interest & drama than a late maneuver to avoid a collision.
04-11-18, 11:18 AM
#69
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,036
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,599 Times
in
1,079 Posts
It is also possible that some cyclists, consciously or not, will take more risks and/or not proactively remove themselves from a developing situation because they have a camera. A defensive response early makes for much less interest & drama than a late maneuver to avoid a collision.
04-13-18, 06:44 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,733
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Liked 3,713 Times
in
1,956 Posts
Well, [MENTION=199172]KD5NRH[/MENTION] is apparently still alive so ....
04-15-18, 06:37 AM
#72
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,875
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Liked 1,661 Times
in
839 Posts
It is also possible that some cyclists, consciously or not, will take more risks and/or not proactively remove themselves from a developing situation because they have a camera. A defensive response early makes for much less interest & drama than a late maneuver to avoid a collision.
04-15-18, 09:38 AM
#73
☢
It is also possible that some cyclists, consciously or not, will take more risks and/or not proactively remove themselves from a developing situation because they have a camera. A defensive response early makes for much less interest & drama than a late maneuver to avoid a collision.
Last edited by KraneXL; 04-15-18 at 11:33 AM.
04-16-18, 04:00 AM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,733
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Liked 3,713 Times
in
1,956 Posts
"Most motorists " don't even see cyclists in their daily drives.
I have no obligation to tell any story.
Maybe we should give people who drive cars more credit than we do. There are bad drivers ... and some proportion of bad cyclists too.
If I really thought drivers were out to get me and that I would be lucky to survive a ride, I simply wouldn't ride on the road.
When I drive, I don't fear being hit or killed, even though so many drivers suffer that very fate.
A much smaller percentage of cyclists suffer that fate.
I refuse to ride in fear.
Each to his taste.
I have no obligation to tell any story.
Maybe we should give people who drive cars more credit than we do. There are bad drivers ... and some proportion of bad cyclists too.
If I really thought drivers were out to get me and that I would be lucky to survive a ride, I simply wouldn't ride on the road.
When I drive, I don't fear being hit or killed, even though so many drivers suffer that very fate.
A much smaller percentage of cyclists suffer that fate.
I refuse to ride in fear.
Each to his taste.
04-16-18, 06:06 AM
#75
Senior Member
