I'm curious - why frame bags versus water bottle cages?
#51
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Decades ago I had a single bottle holder that was in front of the handlebar, the bottle was centered over the tire. And if I had ice water in the bottle on a hot and humid day, the condensation on the bottle would drip onto the rotating tire a few times every minute, and each drop would result in riding through cooler air for a split second as the cold water vaporized from hitting the rotating tire.
I use the modern version of that, but yes. I use a Gibby bag from Swift Industries on one bike and the Po Campo Willis Stem bag on another.
#52
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It so depends on what you're doing. I've spent a few months riding around the U.S. desert southwest in 100+ degree temps and it would be difficult to carry enough water with a bike packing setup. Some days, I set out with 12-14 liters of water. A four-pannier setup allows plenty of room for water as well as easy access to gear thought the day. I never have a stack across the back, just four bags and handlebar bag.
This was during a stop in the shade of the Amargosa Opera house in Death Valley Junction Sept 2019.
This was during a stop in the shade of the Amargosa Opera house in Death Valley Junction Sept 2019.
#53
The piece I don't get - on a bike intended for bike packing, why the sloped top tube? Horizontal or close gives you room for the same top tube bag and much better access to both water bottles. This just strikes me as a no-brainer. Not that this is an issue for me. I stay on pavement and reserve my top tube for the pump. (As important as water is for me, air is more so for the bike.)
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#54
If you're tall enough, you can have both!
I dig this setup, because there's a bunch of stuff - mainly bike tools, spare parts / tubes, pump, first aid kit, etc. - that I can just leave on the bike.
It makes unpacking & packing significantly easier, and puts a bunch of the heaviest stuff right between the wheels, so it's stable.
This picture's old, so since it was taken (7 years ago) I've gotten a custom fork with anything cage mounts so I can throw two more water bottles on the fork if I want.
I dig this setup, because there's a bunch of stuff - mainly bike tools, spare parts / tubes, pump, first aid kit, etc. - that I can just leave on the bike.
It makes unpacking & packing significantly easier, and puts a bunch of the heaviest stuff right between the wheels, so it's stable.
This picture's old, so since it was taken (7 years ago) I've gotten a custom fork with anything cage mounts so I can throw two more water bottles on the fork if I want.
Last edited by schnee; 10-03-23 at 05:19 AM. Reason: more content
#55
Btw, your fingers will come nowhere near the spokes so there’s no danger there.
Last edited by roadfix; 10-07-23 at 08:54 AM.
#56
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Frame bags can carry bottles
With a frame bag you have versatility to carry anything you like - including bottles. Look at all the wasted space around the bottles and cages. You could stuff clothing and snacks and other stuff in there if you needed to. With the cages you don't have that option.
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#58
Cardboard mockup-
Throwing stuff in mockup to get an idea of what could fit:
S
Sewing things up
I did this as a joke, since there wasn't a lot of space in the frame. It was a project "just to see if I could do it" Ended up working- and a super cool place to store extras! I can still get to the water bottles easy and if gives a lot of flexibility to the setup. All bike tools go in the frame bag, so the seatpost mast bag is total clothes/ etc. I thought it would but a dud, but, I love it!
Throwing stuff in mockup to get an idea of what could fit:
S
Sewing things up
I did this as a joke, since there wasn't a lot of space in the frame. It was a project "just to see if I could do it" Ended up working- and a super cool place to store extras! I can still get to the water bottles easy and if gives a lot of flexibility to the setup. All bike tools go in the frame bag, so the seatpost mast bag is total clothes/ etc. I thought it would but a dud, but, I love it!
Last edited by dualresponse; 04-19-24 at 08:24 PM.
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#59
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Camelbak makes a frame bag that holds 2L of water, which I find very convenient for longer training rides.
https://www.camelbak.com/shop/packs/...or=Wolf%20Grey
https://www.camelbak.com/shop/packs/...or=Wolf%20Grey
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-Stupid hurts....ride safe
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
#60
Senior Member
For me this was a big part of it. My frame bag holds my tent, air mattress, sleeping bag, and bag liner, that's a lot of bulk in an out of the way place. With clothing in the seat pack and cooking in the handlebar bag it makes for a good layout and easy to find things.
#61
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Cardboard mockup-
Throwing stuff in mockup to get an idea of what could fit:
S
Sewing things up
I did this as a joke, since there wasn't a lot of space in the frame. It was a project "just to see if I could do it" Ended up working- and a super cool place to store extras! I can still get to the water bottles easy and if gives a lot of flexibility to the setup. All bike tools go in the frame bag, so the seatpost mast bag is total clothes/ etc. I thought it would but a dud, but, I love it!
Throwing stuff in mockup to get an idea of what could fit:
S
Sewing things up
I did this as a joke, since there wasn't a lot of space in the frame. It was a project "just to see if I could do it" Ended up working- and a super cool place to store extras! I can still get to the water bottles easy and if gives a lot of flexibility to the setup. All bike tools go in the frame bag, so the seatpost mast bag is total clothes/ etc. I thought it would but a dud, but, I love it!
__________________
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
#62
For water bottles, I have the worst of both worlds: A monobeam frame where the bottle cage bolts are only slightly above horizontal, so the bottle may leak, and got hit often getting on and off the bike so bent, so I took it off, and got a drink bottle for already-mounted clip-on aero bars. But neither can I mount a frame bag.
Earlier comments on bikepacking vs panniers: I knew bikepacking cut a narrower profile off-road. Bicycling quarterly, even on-road, is very much into the handlebar bag only for randonneuring, and if needed, front panniers, they say this is more aerodynamic than rear panniers. But others have noted above that bikepacking setup results in a much higher center of gravity. My bike not only has front and rear panniers with inherently lower CG, but especially so on 20" wheels, I have fantastic lateral leverage on that weight, can carry heavy loads with plenty of stability, even on slow climbs while standing, and no heavy steering.
Earlier comments on bikepacking vs panniers: I knew bikepacking cut a narrower profile off-road. Bicycling quarterly, even on-road, is very much into the handlebar bag only for randonneuring, and if needed, front panniers, they say this is more aerodynamic than rear panniers. But others have noted above that bikepacking setup results in a much higher center of gravity. My bike not only has front and rear panniers with inherently lower CG, but especially so on 20" wheels, I have fantastic lateral leverage on that weight, can carry heavy loads with plenty of stability, even on slow climbs while standing, and no heavy steering.
#63
For me this was a big part of it. My frame bag holds my tent, air mattress, sleeping bag, and bag liner, that's a lot of bulk in an out of the way place. With clothing in the seat pack and cooking in the handlebar bag it makes for a good layout and easy to find things.
#64
#65
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For water bottles, I have the worst of both worlds: A monobeam frame where the bottle cage bolts are only slightly above horizontal, so the bottle may leak, and got hit often getting on and off the bike so bent, so I took it off, and got a drink bottle for already-mounted clip-on aero bars. ...
On my folder I used one of the Two Fish brand bottle cages that is attached with velcro to wrap around my seat tube extension. I think they call it a quick cage. Velcro so it can be removed quickly for folding. Thus, using one liter sized bottles, I had two liters on the frame.
These are the one liter sized Smart Water bottles, they are the correct diameter for a bottle cage. Life WTR (or in Canada, Life Water) is another brand that makes one liter size bottles that fit in cages well. These bottles do not leak.
On the upright bottle, have an elastic hair band attached to the seat tube extension with velcro to hold the top of the bottle in place so it does not get knocked out of the cage, since the cage is not as firmly attached as the bolted on cages. I also had a bit of adhesive backed weather stripping on the frame tube below the cage and bottle. I tried another bottle behind the seat tube extension, but decided instead to store my spare tube in a small bag there as a third bottle was not really needed when I had a large saddle bag.
#66
(above) I never remembered hitting the bottle cage with my feet when mounting or dismounting, but I noticed the rack bent and cracked one day, so I must have. I'm currently biking in heavy hiking boots as my feet got too big for my sneakers, so that also contributes to not feeling if I hit the bottle. Better location for the cage bosses would be on the underside of the monobeam, but perhaps they didn't put there as that side of the beam is loaded in tension so more fatigue sensitive. Anyway, it's just not a big deal as that low bottle was a pain to reach when cycling, and the Profile drink bottle is a dream, easy to sip from. Additional water I just keep in panniers. If I toured, I'd mount a big bottle on the back of the hugely long seatpost, or back of saddle rails, or back of long stem riser.
But thanks for the info, appreciated.
But thanks for the info, appreciated.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 04-20-24 at 05:30 AM.
#67
Senior Member
One thing I'm noticing more and more are people putting frame bags instead of putting water bottles on the frame
. More and more people are putting water bottles on the forks. Why is that? Wouldn't a bag in the center rub against the leg? Wouldn't water on only one fork make it feel unbalanced? Is it a fad? Or is there some value to this trend? I have absolutely no idea.
. More and more people are putting water bottles on the forks. Why is that? Wouldn't a bag in the center rub against the leg? Wouldn't water on only one fork make it feel unbalanced? Is it a fad? Or is there some value to this trend? I have absolutely no idea.
In my half frame bag, fits my whole tent + my tools + some energy bars. frame bag + handle bar bag + saddle bag is great, no panniers needed. and bike behaves nearly like a normal road bike.
#69
I do have to admit, for my race bike with no rack braze-ons, I used a seatpost beam rack, but a frame bag would have been nice for extra warm clothes or to put them in if it warmed up. But I had two bottle cages and used both, I would need to get a seatback rig for those.
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#71
Senior Member
A frame bag has zero influence in how the bike behaves, if you don't fill it up with concrete bricks you won't feel any difference between riding with a frame bag or not. While panniers have an influence of how a bike behaves.
#72
Aerodynamics, absolutely. A less narrow profile when going through brush off-road, yep. I think both are motivators for bikepacking style. Stability with panniers, not a problem, especially on my 20" wheel folder (monobeam, could not use a frame bag), where both front and rear panniers are mounted low, so I have tons of leverage over them when rocking or banking the bike. I would think that a heavy handlebar-pack load and seat-pack load up high, would have more negative effect on handling, especially with narrow drop bars versus flat bars.
#73
For multi day tours (road/path/gravel, no real mountain biking) credit card style (no camping/cooking) I found this set up with a small frame bag let me move away from panniers. I had to switch to side load water bottle holders and use my smaller water bottles but on the riding/tours I do that is not an issue. I can add a third water bottle under the down tube but it gets filthy very quickly! If I really need, there are fork brazeons where I could carry more water.
The top tube hanging frame bag carries heavy tools and cable/lock on one side, meal bars on the other. On tours where I'm putting the bike on a train (like Amtrak) this approach has worked out much better than my old pannier setup.
The top tube hanging frame bag carries heavy tools and cable/lock on one side, meal bars on the other. On tours where I'm putting the bike on a train (like Amtrak) this approach has worked out much better than my old pannier setup.
#74
Senior Member
Aerodynamics, absolutely. A less narrow profile when going through brush off-road, yep. I think both are motivators for bikepacking style. Stability with panniers, not a problem, especially on my 20" wheel folder (monobeam, could not use a frame bag), where both front and rear panniers are mounted low, so I have tons of leverage over them when rocking or banking the bike. I would think that a heavy handlebar-pack load and seat-pack load up high, would have more negative effect on handling, especially with narrow drop bars versus flat bars.
#75
Well I'm just remembering from Bicycle Quarterly where they said front panniers are more aero than rear panniers (makes sense, more teardrop, smaller zone of wake turbulence), thus their randonneuring setup was a big handlebar bag between drop bars, and sometimes front panniers, they bike fast enough to sense a difference. IIRC, aero drag increases proportional to the square of the speed, and the power needed to overcome it, the cube of the speed. That's why groundbreaking aero cars, with low drag coefficient, had such great highway speeds with relatively small engines.
But based on what you say, I'm guessing the narrow profile for off-road through trees and brush is the driver for bikepacking style.
Groceries don't hypercompress like a down sleeping bag. That's my most frequent use of my panniers.
But based on what you say, I'm guessing the narrow profile for off-road through trees and brush is the driver for bikepacking style.
Groceries don't hypercompress like a down sleeping bag. That's my most frequent use of my panniers.