“You leave your house...But you never know if you’ll be back.”
08-23-18, 02:59 PM
#51
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The same with running red lights. That's intentional, especially when everybody is warned ahead of time with the amber light and pedestrian count-downs.
When city officials try to solve or reduce traffic deaths, the over-all consensus from traffic professionals is to slow down traffic. (Political will is another matter.) But bad drivers always try to find ways around traffic calming obstacles or what not. You just can't design-out intentional stupidity.
08-23-18, 03:58 PM
#52
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Drivers are not stupid. Too many are aggressive, and often lack judgement. Stupid is something else entirely. The main target of driver aggression is other drivers. In any of the last five years less than 1000 cyclists (a lot less) have ever been killed in any one year. In that same time around 40,000 drivers and passengers in automobiles are killed each year. Part of the disparity comes from the relative rarity of cyclists on Americas streets and roads. But a good chunk of safety comes from not being in the flight path of these morons. FRAP if you know what is good for you. There are roads I avoid because they are unpleasant to use due to an abssence of signage or striping to indicate bicycle access. I CAN and WILL use such roads and do so safely. If cycling was not safe, I would not do it. Being a pedestrian seems safer than being a cyclist and there are probably more pedestrians than cyclists but not that much more, far more people are in cars or other forms of motorized transport than walk everywhere but at least 5,000 pedestrians die each year from motor vehicle impacts. Motorcycling is unsafe, small plane transportation is not the safest thing one can do, thrill sports are unsafe. I'll just have to agree to disagree about where cycling ranks with other forms of transportation.
08-23-18, 04:24 PM
#53
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There are just about as many cycling scenarios as there are cyclists. Too many variables to make a blanket statement that "cycling is safe". Sure, in my driveway, cycling is pretty safe. On the local park fitness paths, likely won't be hit by a car (kids and dogs maybe). Highway 96 across central Kansas - about as safe as you can get - 10 cars a day, perfect sight lines, no turns, few cross streets (perfect for an alien abduction tho). Time Square block in NYC, pretty challenging and certainly not as safe as the Kansas route. Literally millions of scenarios with variables like: time of day, day of the week, cyclist skill set, cyclist tire size, school months, summer months, road width, bike lanes, hills, curves, weather, surface condition, local attitude (try "taking a lane" in/near Jackson Mississippi some day), cyclist lane position preferences, and so much more.
08-24-18, 10:49 PM
#54
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But then I come home and never know if I'll leave again.
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08-25-18, 05:32 AM
#57
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Joey, I am about to leave my house in Metairie and ride 30 plus miles through the city. I'll be on the river path, lake path and the Greenway for part of the ride, but for other parts of the ride I'll be in the heart of the city and the burbs. I have the roads almost to myself at this hour. Almost all the drunks have made it home, and those with hangovers aren't on the road yet.
We talk about whether cycling is safe or not. For all of us it's about reducing risk to an acceptable level. Far more pedestrians are killed than cyclists. Is walking unsafe? It's interesting that you will combat commute the city but would find the recreational ride I do in the early morning not worth the risk. I may be getting a job in the CBD, and as much as I would like to cycle, I doubt I have the stones for it.
We talk about whether cycling is safe or not. For all of us it's about reducing risk to an acceptable level. Far more pedestrians are killed than cyclists. Is walking unsafe? It's interesting that you will combat commute the city but would find the recreational ride I do in the early morning not worth the risk. I may be getting a job in the CBD, and as much as I would like to cycle, I doubt I have the stones for it.
Last edited by Paul Barnard; 08-25-18 at 05:37 AM.
08-25-18, 05:45 AM
#58
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…So it appears the victim may have had a red light. Can you remind us all how to "correctly" run red lights again?
Easy as 1-2-3!
1. Look BOTH ways.
2. If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO!
3. If you are NOT SURE, then you CAN'T GO!
And there you have it!
1. Look BOTH ways.
2. If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO!
3. If you are NOT SURE, then you CAN'T GO!
And there you have it!
That's three times more complicated than what the law requires.
1. If you have a red light, stop.
1. If you have a red light, stop.
And if you have a GREEN light???...
GO!
A green light does not magically insure your safety. You have to do the SAME THINGS to cross safely
GO!
A green light does not magically insure your safety. You have to do the SAME THINGS to cross safely
People and cyclists also make honest mistakes operating their vehicles.
I can't see how anybody running a red light (on a bicycle, in a car or on foot) or anybody exceeding the speed limit can be an honest mistake.
...You don’t have the right-of-way until the other yields it to you (learned from my teacher in driver’s ed).
My experience is that people drive differently in every city and treat cyclists very differently. The best advice often comes from cyclists that live the closest to you …
The exception here would also be Jim from Boston--anyone that can successfully commute around Boston has my full respect and probably knows how to deal with about every intersection imaginable!
The exception here would also be Jim from Boston--anyone that can successfully commute around Boston has my full respect and probably knows how to deal with about every intersection imaginable!
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-25-18 at 11:56 AM.
08-25-18, 05:49 AM
#59
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Yes, it IS too much to ask. I live in a city with all kinds of people. Grew up here. My mom was a pro ballet dancer so gay people were all around me, my dad was an athlete then worked for the phone company (Southern Bell, then AT&T) so my world was simultaneously filled with people of color. Even GAY people of COLOR. And I think it is safe to say that New Orleans is the most liberal city for 1000 miles in any direction. I am white, I am the MINORITY here, and I live here on purpose. It ain't perfect but I have looked around the USofA and this is the best place I can afford to be. So your insinuations likely say something about YOU. And I never want to read that $#!T again on any of my threads. Capiche?
*
Last edited by Paul Barnard; 08-25-18 at 05:52 AM.
08-25-18, 08:57 AM
#61
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I think this is just getting shaky anyway.
Look, mortality is 100% regardless of how. A little tiny germ can do it as much as whatever. Keep your wits tuned and pay attention, you have no control over it otherwise.
A&S is not about us vs. them and paranoia, it's about co-existence and promoting awareness and self-confidence.
Look, mortality is 100% regardless of how. A little tiny germ can do it as much as whatever. Keep your wits tuned and pay attention, you have no control over it otherwise.
A&S is not about us vs. them and paranoia, it's about co-existence and promoting awareness and self-confidence.
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08-25-18, 09:14 AM
#62
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08-25-18, 06:53 PM
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Don't give him the time of day with his race baiting. I am surprised the mods haven't issued a cease and desist on it. Moreover I'd be willing to bet that he is casting his racial aspersions from the comfort of a relative vanilla enclave. The race baiters always seem to come from not so diverse areas. This area is so remarkably and beautifully diverse in every way. On my ride today I will see people of every race and a remarkable range of ethnic diversity. I don't know why but I really get a kick out of seeing Muslim women in their full garb riding bikes. From his comments it looks like he is trying to get the thread closed or punted. I hope the mods see this and don't oblige.
08-25-18, 08:35 PM
#64
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I don’t know about the intolerance. I didn’t read back enough to see it. Those that want to be offended will always find a reason to be.
But on the riding end end of the post... I’ve always felt safer riding in heavy traffic in town than out on the back roads. At least if I get hit in town, there are witnesses and someone to call 911. I’m far more concerned heading out in the motorcycle than the bicycle.
But on the riding end end of the post... I’ve always felt safer riding in heavy traffic in town than out on the back roads. At least if I get hit in town, there are witnesses and someone to call 911. I’m far more concerned heading out in the motorcycle than the bicycle.
08-25-18, 09:26 PM
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...But on the riding end end of the post...I’ve always felt safer riding in heavy traffic in town than out on the back roads. At least if I get hit in town, there are witnesses and someone to call 911.
I’m far more concerned heading out in the motorcycle than the bicycle.
I’m far more concerned heading out in the motorcycle than the bicycle.
The weird thing is that traffic in NYC is aggressive, but I find it easier to survive than other places.
I'm not sure I'm ready to say NYC drivers are better than in other places, because it may simply be that I understand the dance and know how to do it .
I'm not sure I'm ready to say NYC drivers are better than in other places, because it may simply be that I understand the dance and know how to do it .
As a social ballroom dancer with years of lessons, as well as urban commuter, may I say, "Well said."
There was thread once about rural vs urban cycling, and a concensus was that urban cycling was safer, because of the congestion and slower speeds. Even with heavy traffic, I know the patterns of traffic, the "dance steps," and can anticipate the car's movements.
Earlier on this thread, I wrote: An important aphorism I learned on BF is, "To know where a car is going, watch the front wheels, not the body or hood," though we don't watch our feet when we dance.
There was thread once about rural vs urban cycling, and a concensus was that urban cycling was safer, because of the congestion and slower speeds. Even with heavy traffic, I know the patterns of traffic, the "dance steps," and can anticipate the car's movements.
Earlier on this thread, I wrote: An important aphorism I learned on BF is, "To know where a car is going, watch the front wheels, not the body or hood," though we don't watch our feet when we dance.
08-25-18, 11:40 PM
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So, this is Biking With The Stars?
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08-26-18, 10:47 AM
#67
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08-26-18, 12:33 PM
#68
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Now if you want to turn that into a political discussion, let's talk about people who hire illegals getting some prison time. If you feed the pigeons, the pigeons will come and walls won't help. Lock up the pigeon feeders and that solves the pigeon problem. Politically speaking, and my personal feelings on the matter, I don't believe the USofA needs to be kept safe from hard-working, industrious people. But I didn't see much of a political slant to the story I l inked. Just cyclists getting killed in a dangerous situation. That is the A&S material in the article I hoped would spur a lively discussion about bike safety.
08-26-18, 12:37 PM
#69
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Let's not, CBS has golf.
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08-26-18, 06:35 PM
#70
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I wouldn't have noticed this thread except that @Jim from Boston quoted me here, from another thread. I ride in NYC pretty much every weekday. Yeah, it can be rough to travel on the streets on a bike, but I wouldn't call it a war-like experience. Maybe it is in New Orleans where you live, @JoeyBike, but there's more indifference to cyclists than hostility towards us. And actually, if I cut someone off, rightly or wrongly, most of the time, he will brake and avoid me, not retaliate or rebuke me. You should come and see what it's like. Sure there's danger, but there's danger in a lot of things that we do normally. I think that as I do my commute, I'm safer from death than the average suburban driver. That may be counterintuitive because if a car hits me, my body could be crushed, and someone in a car carries a lot of armor. But such fatal body-crushing car-bike collisions are rarer per mile or per trip than car-car collisions. I have to take some risks in life, and I think by taking the risks that go with cycling in heavy traffic, I'm mitigating a lot of risks associated with a sedentary life of too little exercise. When doctors and nurses take my vital signs, they are astonished at my conditioning, and I'm hardly an elite athlete.
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09-10-18, 08:27 AM
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It would appear that you want to have it both ways. Look, either cycling is an incredibly dangerous activity, to be undertaken extremely prudently if at all, or it isn't. I for one would NOT want to add a single iota of additional risk in an activity already so fraught as to make me question my survival on a minute by minute basis. Full disclosure: I run red lights daily, but I am not simultaneously linking articles by people claiming that cycling is up there with BASE jumping based on the risk to life and limb statistics. What exactly is your reason for doing so? Also, is it too much to ask why, in recent threads, you seem to need to drag people of color into your rants? IF I bother to read that article, will it be expressly determined that all the food delivery personnel in NYC are undocumented, or is that just your biased extrapolation? Is this yet another of your threads that needs to be locked pronto? I'm thinking, yes!
09-10-18, 12:17 PM
#72
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Quintessential A&S thread: nauseating, fascinating, full of illogic, untruth, silliness, deliberate misunderstanding and willful ignorance ... a slow-motion train wreck and a guilty pleasure.
Why worry about dying while cycling? Imagine dying with this thread open in your browser ......
Why worry about dying while cycling? Imagine dying with this thread open in your browser ......
09-12-18, 09:50 AM
#73
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I wouldn't have noticed this thread except that @Jim from Boston quoted me here, from another thread. I ride in NYC pretty much every weekday. Yeah, it can be rough to travel on the streets on a bike, but I wouldn't call it a war-like experience. Maybe it is in New Orleans where you live,
09-12-18, 09:56 AM
#74
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Quintessential A&S thread: nauseating, fascinating, full of illogic, untruth, silliness, deliberate misunderstanding and willful ignorance ... a slow-motion train wreck and a guilty pleasure.
Why worry about dying while cycling? Imagine dying with this thread open in your browser ......
Why worry about dying while cycling? Imagine dying with this thread open in your browser ......
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Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.